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Discussion Starter #1
i ran into a thread from this site so i decided to let you guys know 3v can be controlled by 96 pcm.


VCT can't, that is an easy thing. it is only a PWM solenoid. controllers are 195 dollars. no biggie.

CMCC plates remove with no problems. forget them. this is all documented on stangnet. i use name billfisher there. just look up threads by me.

if you guys can fit it in do this not 351w or whatever. make more power.

here ia a dyno from an f-150

this dyno sheet is representative of 5.4 3v power. keep in mind power losses from a pick up are more than a car.notice the flat torque curve and rising power when limiter steps in. i don't have a 5000 rpm limiter on mine. i rev it to 5500.
interpolate and you get the idea of how much more.

http://home.att.net/~bill.fisher/dyno543v.bmp


add less power losses and you have way more power than 4.6. by the way 3v heads not only out flow the best ported 2v, but the fill the cylinders better than stock 4v. laminar airflow and essentially no bend into the cylinders.

read this minths MMFF. it has an article about these heads. there is only more to come.

in the space where my car gets to 100 with a pi swapped full bolt on 4.6 this
motor goes to 110.
 

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My 2V 5.4 makes that power and 75 ft-lbs more at the wheels. And that's with a 95 4.6 intake and stock 95 4.6 exhaust manifolds. And a 2V already works with the EEC. Save your money.
 

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kentwood is right, theres a lot more drivetrain loss from a truck, plus, you cant really get an accurate dyno run cause if u run it in 3rd gear, you will hit the limiter. So you have to do a 2nd gear run.
 

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What is all of this bs about not using a 351W?

For what a 3V 5.4L is going to cost you right now, you can build a 351W that will CRUSH any modular setup.

If you want to do this to be fashionable then jump all over it. Just don't post nonsense that is all but impossible to distinguish from incoherent babbling and expect it to be accepted. Especially with nonsense saying that it will make more power than a 351W (and we're not talking stock 351W from 1976 either).

Oh yeah, learn the language. English isn't all that bad when you learn to both speak it and type it.
 

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Kentwood said:
Guys...that dyno is from a truck

the 3 valve 5.4 makes way more power than a 2v
300 - 15% = 255 So if the truck loses an extra 25 HP over a car, that's what you'd get. I don't know how it only got in the mid 200's for TQ though. That's sad. Even in a car, with the extra 30 mentioned, it's still way below what I have in a choked 2V.

I do not question the 3V's capability, but as listed above, the cost would NOT be worth the effort. It barely is with the 2V.
 

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wilson502 said:
kentwood is right, theres a lot more drivetrain loss from a truck, plus, you cant really get an accurate dyno run cause if u run it in 3rd gear, you will hit the limiter. So you have to do a 2nd gear run. Plus those 5.4 3vs respond REALLY well to custom tuning. If you read some F150 boards, some of those trucks pick up 30+ rwhp 30+ rwtq with tuning.
Bull****.
Same trans
Same differential
No more loss just because it's a truck.
JL
 

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Johnny Langton said:
Bull****.
Same trans
Same differential
No more loss just because it's a truck.
JL

Right, but the truck has bigger tires/rims than what we would use for racing and most street applications. At least that's what I figure...
 

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hotbird said:
Right, but the truck has bigger tires/rims than what we would use for racing and most street applications. At least that's what I figure...
Doesn't matter.
Driveline losses are frictional losses.
What you're referring to is a simple effective gear ratio difference,and the dyno only cares about power made-gearing is irrellevant for that aspect of the dyno pull. Actually Dynojet software will tend to show MORE power with higher gearing,so if anything,the larger OD tires will have a higher dyno than with the same setup on smaller diameter tires.
JL
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
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assasinator said:
sorry i left you guys in limbo.


that dyno wasn't to advertise power levels. truck lose their butts on dynos. but rather it was to show the flat torque curve.

as far as 351w. my motor makes 365 lb-ft stock. 351w 300
my motor make 300hp stock 351w 200. i have a 90 econoline with a 351w. not the same animal.

this thing make massive torque just off idle. all the way to redline.

to get heads that compete with these you have to get ported twisted wedge heads. and flow numbers have little to do with total cylinder filling ability. flow numbers are for magazines. my exhaust port flows 189cfm stock.

remember this is with a stock anemic factory emissions pick up truck cam.

the 95 corbra "R" made 385hp.. i can do that with a few small changes.

abd include variabl valve timing and i make more power off idle. look at the dyno sheet from cobra 'r'. it makes VERY little torque until 4000. so in other word i am leaving cobra 'r' behind until he gets up on the cam, meanwhile my cam is phasing and making just as much HP.

so to say 351w is easier to make power isn't really true. maximum full race 351w maybe 750hp at 9500 NA.

smaller 5.4 885 hp at only 8500. al pappito is the one doing it. he is using 4v, but to say 351w is better isn't really true.

now, with that said stroke it to 427 and add those nascar heads and you are talking a different animal. but i am sure you guys have $25,000 laying around.

these mods can be dry sleeved to 3.7" bore or 380 cubes.

as far as the dyno. figure it makes more power than 2v. because it does. these heads flow more and fill more than the best most expensive 2v heads period. and that is stock.

i started with 300/365. vs 265/345. not to knock the 2v. i like them also. but 2v is history. i wanted to update you guys on what is new. this is easier and cheaper to do than 4v. the intake is almost low enough to use factory 96 stang hood. i missed it by only 1". i didn't have to go with this hood(cobra 'r'), but i am going to blow it at some point, and besides i want to put a radical upper intake setup on it.

if you already have 2v than 3v will be an easy switch. you will just have more space under the hood.


trucks don't use same tranny. 4r100 is not 4r70w. way more losses from 4r100
also 9.5 " diff isn't an 8.8" again more losses.
taller tires affect relative gear ratios.



as far as the dyno sheet. take away throttle control. i use cable
take away intake. mine is modded.
add headers and real exhaust.
no 5000 rpm rev limiter i shift at 5500 and you get 325+hp for a little work

add cams soon and wellah it rivals windsor small block. and beats it's torque

just thought i would update you guys seeya

The F150 uses the 4R75E-a slightly modified version of the 4R70W. There are very little to no changes that will affect driveline losses. The F150 also uses the 8.8" rear,not the 9.5". There are 1/2 dozen of them in our fleet at work so you can try to argue this all day.
Get your **** straight.
I personally sat in a stone-*** stock Cobra R on the dyno. it made right near 400rwhp,and over 400 ft-lbs, with no aftermarket components at all-not even a K&N air filter.
It was not down on power at lower rpms at all like you suggest, it made alot more torque than any 2V I've ever seen,or any 3V that I've seen to date.
You are totally full of ****,and I suspect that you're here for one of a few reasons.
1) You're here to start **** by trolling for flame fodder,
2) You're here to try to sell something,
3) You're a total idiot that thinks we're stupid.

JL
 

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assasinator said:
sorry i left you guys in limbo.


that dyno wasn't to advertise power levels. truck lose their butts on dynos. but rather it was to show the flat torque curve.

as far as 351w. my motor makes 365 lb-ft stock. 351w 300
my motor make 300hp stock 351w 200. i have a 90 econoline with a 351w. not the same animal.

Truncated rest as it is immaterial.
What bizzaro world do you people live in? Haven't you people ever heard of anything but stock engines? I have a 347 right now that would flat out own ANY stock 4.6L/5.4L NA engine whether it has 2, 3 or 4 valves. How/why? Because I am not running STOCK.

Don't come in here telling people how great an engine is that would cost from $3000-$5000 to procure and then spend who knows how much more to make work that it will outperform a 351W to then just say that it will outperform a stock 351W from a FRIGGIN' 1990 ECONOLINE VAN!

Every single 4.6 person on here could take that $3000-$5000 and upgrade their current 4.6 and FLAT OWN that 3v 5.4L.

It's nice that this stock engine may have a lot of potential. It's nice that it is showing some numbers (which may nor may not be valid) that look ok in stock form. But who cares? It would cost so much to retrofit into any of these cars and then cost so much to make it work that I just don't see the value when the performance gain is from zero to marginal at best.

If you want to pursue this and involve everyone here for the purpose of doing it just to see it done then I don't see much of an issue with that. It is just plain silly to come in here and push it forward with the idea that it is or is going to be a big performer.


....and I'm not even a 4.6 guy and this all seems pretty ridiculous to me.
 

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Wow, that's just horrible, thanks for helping everyone to stay away from swapping in a gutless 3V.
 

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If I were going to spend the kind of money it would take to put a 5.4 3V engine into my 95 Thunderbird I'd just to all out and snatch up either a 5.7 or (drool) 6.1 Hemi and without much more in the way of custom mods to get it to run in there dust any 5.4 3V Ford could ever dream up. The 4.6 isn't a great design but it can do what that 5.4 does for less money and a lot less pain in the A$$.
Just my $0.02 on the matter.

Oh well, guess I'll get flamed for saying so but...
 

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assasinator said:
truck lose their butts on dynos...
I stopped reading at this point.... :leftright

The whole concept of a dyno is to "make all things equal". Yes, driveline losses will vary slightly, but they should be documented and can be calculated into the final numbers.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but on a dyno, transmission gear ratio, final gear ratio and tire size mean absolutely nothing (or very, very little). That is the whole purpose of putting something on a dyno instead of using a calculation from a time slip. :thumbsup:

And I'm with everyone else... for far less money; a slightly modified 351W will spank the daylights out of that 5.4L. Shoot, take a bone stock 351W, bolt on a Vortech and see what kind of power is made, for what <$4000? (I'm not that up on the 351W so if I'm wrong, please correct me. :thumbsup: )

Sorry everyone came down on you... but you did post BS!! :bs:
 
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