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I just had my rear-end handed to me by a '98 Camaro! I got him off the line, but he was even with me until, I think, his third gear kicked in and then he completely blew my doors off.

I don't have a slow 4.6, it's chipped, I have a cold air intake and true dual exhaust. I thought my car was pretty healthy, but the Camaro made me feel like I was driving a 6-cylinder. I know the thing was built a little. I could see and hear a pretty expensive exhaust system, and it was a very healthy car.

I want more speed throughout the powerband. I want off-the-line torque and improved top speed. Can soemone please give me some ideas of what additional mods I can make so I dont get embarrassed by a chevy anymore?

Now, I had a Camaro back in the day, a '74 with a 350, and I loved that thing. But I have my 4.6 now, so I'm fully on this team. I can beat a lot of mustangs (nothing personal mustang lovers) but I want to beat pontiacs and chevys. Please help... anyone?

(p.s - I dust BMW 3 & 5 series too!)
 

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I sold my first T-bird to get a LS1 Camaro, I just bought my second as a nice driver. It is going to be damn hard to beat a LS1 with a MN-12, and it'll take more than bolt ons.

- Most MN-12's are in the 15's or very high 14's with bolt ons
- My LS1 ran 12.97 with nothing but Nittos and a cat back. They run low 13's bone stock.
- The car dyno'd 320 RWHP with just the catback.
- With full bolt ons and still at full weight I ran 11.73 and dyno 347 RWHP. The engine is still stock internal, valve covers have never been off. It is totally streetable and easily kills about anything I meet on the street. I have devastated '03 Cobras on the track and street with no power adder.

My car is not a freak by any means, I have put the same forumla on two other cars with similar results.

It takes about $2K in mods to put these cars in the 11's. You'll need a lot more than that to get your MN-12 there. As a minimum I'd guess you need gears/PI engine if not DOHC, a supercharger or a big shot of N20 to keep up with a bolt on LS1. :cool:

Ed
 

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Sorry to burst your bubble or anything, but you aren't going to be "dusting" any camaros without some serious work! If you play your part combos right you might just come close! lol These are heavy underpowered cars and take lots of time/money to get them to those levels of performance, but can be done!

It all depends on what route you want to go...

Start off with Steeper gears and higher stall TC for one.

You could find yourself a PI engine or convert over to the PI topend (heads,cams, intake). Then you could get some "happy gas" or an SC to top it off. Or keep it N/A and P&P the heads, with some cams and do all the usual "bolt ons". Or even do both!

What ever you do it's not going to be exactly easy...

If you just want to keep your engine, it's going to be difficult being that you have a 94.

If you haven't gotton rid of the violin case yet, do so with a custom tube. Get some gears, a high stall TC, J-Mod the tranny, git rid of extra weight for starters. Really not much to do with a stock 94 motor without a hassle.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Porting and polishing the heads are something that I was intending to do anyway, and I guess re-gearing the tranny is a no-brainer. Do I need a larger diff for more torque? Will it make a difference off the line that I can notice?

I already know that my best way to beat a Camaro is to go buy a Firebird formula or something else relatively affordable, not my lil' t-bird. But I would like a show of force at least.

This is the first Ford I've owned actually, and at my age, that's saying something. I think I've had about 17 cars over the years. For american cars though, I always chose either a Chevy or Mopar. Never really wanted a Mustang (exception: 68 fastback or a cobra) ... go figure.
 

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I will tell you another car that will surprise you, One of the new Honda Accord Coupes with a v6, don't know if it was a 6 speed or auto but it could move out.
 

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Intrakitt said:
Porting and polishing the heads are something that I was intending to do anyway, and I guess re-gearing the tranny is a no-brainer. Do I need a larger diff for more torque? Will it make a difference off the line that I can notice?

I already know that my best way to beat a Camaro is to go buy a Firebird formula or something else relatively affordable, not my lil' t-bird. But I would like a show of force at least.

This is the first Ford I've owned actually, and at my age, that's saying something. I think I've had about 17 cars over the years. For american cars though, I always chose either a Chevy or Mopar. Never really wanted a Mustang (exception: 68 fastback or a cobra) ... go figure.
Awesome as long as you understand that that it's going to take some work!;) The Ford 8.8 rear end is nice and strong, no worrys! The best bet would be to get your diff rebuilt with a nice T-Lok (posi) and get some gears of your choice installed (3.73, 4.10 or even 4.30). And as for the higher stall torque converter, talk to "Dirtyd0g" about a rebuilt (stronger and higher stall) Marauder TC. He is the man around here for that! The J-Mod is the #1 shift kit which is performed by modifing the valve body which is all explained in the tech articles. Gears and a TC will make a NICE difference off the line!

Cool... I suggest finding some used 96+ Heads for a cheap price (or even 99+ PI heads), getting them P&P'ed and get either some PI cams or aftermarket cams (pricey) to go along with them. Then switch over to the newer style intake (99+ PI w/ aluminum crossover).

Glad to here you have finally switched over to the "GOOD" side....LOL! No but good luck with everything and welcome to the site! Just a note, the search function is a great tool. A lot of great info can be found on these forums!

;)

EDIT: Dusty, I got beat by one of them with a 50 shot at the track. They are pretty quick. I think I could have taken him if he didn't spray. He ran a 14.8 to my 15.3. BTW this was in crappy conditions...
 

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Do you want to beat him just once? Bolt some sort of FI to your stock block. You could probably get one or two killer runs out of it. If you want to do it regularly and repeatedly: Forged bottom, worked heads/intake, cams, built 4rw70 (no wait, manual swap), FI of some sort . . . still a tall order.

Trying to get there NA is going to make for a *****y daily driver. Big cams and manifold along with 3600+ stall and a rear end gear in the 4's. You could solve some of that problem with a manual swap, but try searching THOSE threads if you want to see the diehard Ford Blue challenge and dedication in action.

And no offense Edg1957, 'cause I owned a 69 camaro that put most of my recent 5.0 Ford's to shame (from a pretty and a money-to-fast comparison), but they're still damn ugly, even for bowties!
 

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Yeah LS1 camaro's are animals, infact that's gonna be my next car. One thing i gotta say, they are geared to take full advantage of their torque which is low down...like under 3k to over 5k. Mustang guys always think this is a sign of "bad gearing"...cause stangs NEED gears to get them up past 4k for torque...our cars are turds compared to ls1 camaro's, unless you do a mk8 4.6 swap, slap on a blower, tranny, -500lbs...you'd maybe hit low 13's.

I've read on several racing forums that ls1 m6's OWN in 3rd gear....
 

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snow said:
our cars are turds compared to ls1 camaro's, unless you do a mk8 4.6 swap, slap on a blower, tranny, -500lbs...you'd maybe hit low 13's.
That is a bunch of BS. You don't need to do that to hit 13's. There are cheaper routes than that. A PI headswap with aggressive aftermarket cams, high stall TC, 4.30's, SCT tune and drag radials would be a lot cheaper than what you suggested and run where you suggested.
 

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snow said:
Yeah LS1 camaro's are animals, infact that's gonna be my next car. One thing i gotta say, they are geared to take full advantage of their torque which is low down...like under 3k to over 5k. Mustang guys always think this is a sign of "bad gearing"...cause stangs NEED gears to get them up past 4k for torque...our cars are turds compared to ls1 camaro's, unless you do a mk8 4.6 swap, slap on a blower, tranny, -500lbs...you'd maybe hit low 13's.

I've read on several racing forums that ls1 m6's OWN in 3rd gear....
Jesus with that setup youll be in the 12's easily,
 

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pnyklr said:
PS Stay away from the Turbo v6 Trans Am's though
unless you wanna have your a** handed to you, take this advice, ;)
 

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well i can tell u this i do not have much trouble with ls1 camaros unless there highly modded all have is the svo blower with basic things like gears etc i still have the stock motor hehe but i have cams but still stock ls1 are no trouble they can red light me and ill pass them on the way down the track, but with a stock 94 motor the ls1 will eat u with out a power adder u could build the little 2 v with some nice heads Like Hans and JL have and a few other hehe and it makes a killer combo trust me on this hehe just my 2 cents
 

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RobertP said:
well i can tell u this i do not have much trouble with ls1 camaros unless there highly modded all have is the svo blower with basic things like gears etc i still have the stock motor hehe but i have cams but still stock ls1 are no trouble they can red light me and ill pass them on the way down the track, but with a stock 94 motor the ls1 will eat u with out a power adder u could build the little 2 v with some nice heads Like Hans and JL have and a few other hehe and it makes a killer combo trust me on this hehe just my 2 cents
Just a couple of points on the LS1:

- It only takes simple bolts ons (headers/cat back/stall) to run very low 12's with an LS1. 12.60 is not enough. "Highly modified" LS1 cars run low 10's easy.
- The LS1 does not make power down low. LT1's did, but then they die out fast. The sweet spot on a LS1 is 4000 or so. I run a 4200 stall in my car.
- I agree with JCG1 that the body is a mediocre design, stupid long dash, huge blind spots, huge doors, crappy window motors, stupid needless hump for a cat on the pasenger floor, many people call it a "catfish" car, but I love the motor.

This is a bolt on only car, not highly modified. Like said above, serious mods or stay with V-6 cars. And I know some turbo sixes around here running mid-12's! :cool:



Ed
 

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This one guy at the track had a 2001 WS6 and wound up talking to me for a bit. With some aftermarket heads, headers, exhaust, cam, and a LS6 intake manifold, his car cut a 12.2 at 120 something...LS1's are no joke.

Pete
 

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no doubt, if i ever get a sports car its gonna be either the pontiac ws6 or a camaro z28 or ss.
 

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well all i can say is those cars come with little 7.5 rears so u are gonna have to beef those up hehe
 
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