TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 124 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Ok after exhaustive research, and many many many many hours of going blind reading the internet and some informitive how to books until my eyes bled, I have come to this point. What started as a simple 5-speed swap into my 97 Sport, well that plan went out the window when I happened across a complete PI motor for $200. So then the build became a 5-speed swap with a PI motor upgrade, with a motor rebuilt on the cheap. Well that plan got shot to hell when I started researching, and realized just how much it costs to build these stinkin 4.6 motors.(it's my first one) So I decided not to cheap out and just build the motor right, and to the performance level I want. Anyways, alot of patience and a few blunders, a ton of research, and alot of advice from Nick @ Modular Head Shop have brought me here.

I now have a Teksid block that went .020 over, still not sure it needed to but whatever it's done, I kept the 99 GT 8 bolt crank, found a set of killer heads on here already done with the Comp 270's I wanted, 24lb injectors, 75mm TB, 90mm MAF and a set of headers I bought 4 years ago but just never got around to installing. I did get the correct rod and main bearings, hopefully the machine shop didn't screw me on the crank and make me have to buy another set, as they told me everything would remain standard sizes. I bought a new set of .020 over 11cc dish pistons and rings to match, and I have learned from Nick that I will need to notch the pistons in order to install the cams correctly, anyone got a guess how much, or will that be something the machine shop will have to tell me? The block, heads and rotating assembly are going to the shop tomorrow for a good checking over and the rotating assembly balanced.

Now I am fairly certain I have got this all figured out, my hodgepodge motor build with the Mark 8 block and the Windsor PI heads, I have the right valve covers, and I'm fairly sure I found the right part numbers I need for the pieced together timing set I need, the explorer screw in pivot pins and correct tensioner swing arms and all that stuff. I got the 94-95 T-Bird front cover I was instructed I need. I know where the hole is I need to drill in the block, and I have figured out the cooling mod everyone talks about for the plastic intakes. I have been informed by JL and guitarmaestro that the Cobra pan I got won't clear our K-member so my stock pan will have to suffice, or a Mark 8 pan. I'm not really in search of the extra quart you get from the Mark 8 pan as I already have a 9 quart system, I don't particuarly need the extra oil. I was trying to go the Cobra pan route so I could use the built in baffles and the factory windage tray, but I suppose I am out of luck with that route. I have never looked in a stock T-bird pan, any kind of baffling in there? Is the aftermarket windage tray an option, or my only option for a windage tray? Also I got the Cobra oil pump kit with the bigger pickup tube as I thought I could use that, will I be able to, or does anyone know what it will take to get that to work?

My next concern would be top end and front dress. I figure on reusing most of my front dress, with the exception of a new alternator as mine just quit and a new water pump cause thats just smart. Will the replacement I get for my 97 motor work? I have seen some discussion about mounting brackets and such being different, but I seem to remember my alternator only using 2 bolts to mount, did I forget something? Also I picked up a upper plenum and TB for a Mustang, what kind of mods am I looking at to get my throttle cable and such to work?? The TB is a 75mm BBK piece and the upper plenum is a factory piece, from what I don't know, but I'd guess Mustang.

I was told the heads I got were from an 03 GT, but from my research it seems that they might have come from a truck. They are Windsor casting, and everything I see says after 01 most of the GT's were Romeo castings. Also one of the books I have shows a sensor in the #5 intake runner that was supposedly truck/suv commonly, and the heads I got have that sensor still in place. Any guesses on what kinda sensor plug in issues/location trouble I might run into? Any coolant line location/routing issues I need to be on the lookout for? The nipple in the block valley that comes out of the backside of the water pump is kinda mangled, i.e. flattened out a bit and just generally messed up, any suggestions on what i can do the fix that? Any way to replace it, or am I looking at cutting off the flat part and replacing it with rubber hose?

I apologize for all the questions as well as the novel I have wrote out here, I'm just trying to make sure all my ducks are in a row. I have wore out the search button here, Modular Depot, Modular Fords and Corral, and these are the questions I have left. I'm fairly certain that once I have both motors out and next to each other I will probably be able to figure most all of this stuff out, and even though I might seem like an idiot with all these question, I promise this isn't my first dance, nor am I an idiot, lol. But any advice or stuff to look for right off the bat would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone actually reads all of this and sees anything I missed, let me know lol. I'll be sure to post up pics if anyone cares to see them as I go along. I'd guess I'm about 2 weeks from engine assembly and then car teardown, so this should be fun. Thanks in advance for the help. Jim
 

·
PostWhore, The AFDB is on a lil tight.
Joined
·
3,868 Posts
I can say your post sounds like you have indeed read a lot about this car. Nice build list for anyone who can afford it. are you still keeping the 5 speed in your build?

that engine sounds pretty damn nice. Are you planning to stay NA?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
If Windsor heads make sure you get Windsor valve covers from a Mustang. I have a set if needed.

Piston notching is typically $100-$200 if they have the fixtures or not.

Do the heads have stock valves still?

Tbird pan is the same as the Mark other than the Mark has the extra kickout for the extra quart. Both pans are miles better than the Cobra/Mustang as they have much more oil control. Use a Mark pickup no matter Tbird/Mark pan as it has an extra oil scraper brazed onto it. Don't worry about the windage tray with the Tbird/Mark pan.

The sensor at #5 is for water temp and goes into a blind hole. You can remove and toss it.
 

·
High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
Are you planning on using the HO oil pump? If so-you're wasting money and HP. There is absolutely no need for the HO pump on a 2V engine.
JL
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,961 Posts
agreed on the cobra HO oil pump...you'll be sending a whole lot of oil to the top of the heads for nothing, just more parasitic losses....the 2V oil pump will be fine, along with some TSS oil pump gears.

the water pump nipple that you say is damaged can be replaced

have you already acquired the tools for degreeing the cams?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The 5-speed swap is still going to happen, when the motor comes out thr 4r70w will be coming with it and going into the used parts pile. I got a fresh T-45 and all the parts I need to do the swap, with alot of help on that from MadMikeyL. I do intend to keep it an N/A motor for the forseeable future, but I wouldn't mind a blower somewhere on down the line.

I have the Mustang Windsor valve covers that came on that complete PI motor I picked up, so I am good there. The whole motor is going to Pro Line Racing today up in Woodstock, I have come to find they are one of the higher end better shops for machine work on Mod motors. I called Modular Powerhouse directly and they tell me they do all of their machine work, so I'm hoping it won't be much of an issue for them to balance the bottom end and notch out the pistons. The heads I got have been totally reworked, with new aftermarket ss valves, so I don't have the factory lip to contend with, so I am a bit ahead of the game in that regards.

I have already bought the Cobra pump and pickup tube, it was actually cheaper than a replacement stock pump, so I thought I was doing better. Not a big deal, I have no problems returning it and getting just a stock piece. I can also get my hands on a Mark pan without any trouble, like I said, I was under the false impression the Cobra pan was better, and I suppose in the Mustang arena it may be. But thats was my goal was oil control, so if the Mark is better and no windage tray is needed, then thats what I shall get. I suppose I still have the old school build mentality where the windage trays are just cheap easy easy extra gains, but so be it. I don't want to be sending a bunch of extra oil to the top of the heads for sure, as I have learned there is already a ton of extra oil up there in the first place, no need for more.

Thanks for the info on the sensor, I was curious about that, whether or not I would have to plug the hole or anything. The water nipple that is damaged, got damaged by the guy that had that block before me, he was trying to replace it for some reason or another. He couldn't get it out, and basically only managed to mangle it, so I wasn't sure what I was getting into there. I have not gotten any of the tools I need to degree the cams in yet, although it is my intention to. The cams will get degreed in one way or another, thats for sure, just whether or not by me is still in question. Im still on the fence as to if I want to do it and put out the money for tools I will probably only use once or twice, and chance making a mistake, or just have Pro Line do it after I assemble the rest of the engine. I just have major issues with someone else building my engines, it's not something I am used to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
I will be following this closely as you get closer to the t-45 swap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Truth be told I am actually more nervous about the motor build than the 5-speed swap. All of the info I got from the tech article and the help I got from MadMikeyL I am confident that will come off without a hitch.

I brought the motor to the machine shop, and as I suspected I got burned from the first shop. I paid for block cleaning and decking, didn't get that, I paid for crank cleaning and polishing, didnt get that. So now all that has to be redone. All I can hope now is he didn't lie to me about the mains being good as far as a line hone is concerned, and hope he didn't lie to me about the bearings being able to stay std. size, especially considering I have already bought all the new bearing is std. size. So I brought the block, rotating assembly, and heads up for work, and got handed an estimate for 1600 bucks. Needless to say took me a minute to pick my jaw up off the floor, but so be it, pay for what you get I suppose. The other downside is he told me 4-5 weeks on the long side, and 2 weeks on the short side. So looks like I'm delayed again, hopefully I can still make Fun Ford here in Atlanta Labor Day weekend.
 

·
High-Mileage 4.6L Thrasher
Joined
·
3,232 Posts
Truth be told I am actually more nervous about the motor build than the 5-speed swap. All of the info I got from the tech article and the help I got from MadMikeyL I am confident that will come off without a hitch.

I brought the motor to the machine shop, and as I suspected I got burned from the first shop. I paid for block cleaning and decking, didn't get that, I paid for crank cleaning and polishing, didnt get that. So now all that has to be redone. All I can hope now is he didn't lie to me about the mains being good as far as a line hone is concerned, and hope he didn't lie to me about the bearings being able to stay std. size, especially considering I have already bought all the new bearing is std. size. So I brought the block, rotating assembly, and heads up for work, and got handed an estimate for 1600 bucks. Needless to say took me a minute to pick my jaw up off the floor, but so be it, pay for what you get I suppose. The other downside is he told me 4-5 weeks on the long side, and 2 weeks on the short side. So looks like I'm delayed again, hopefully I can still make Fun Ford here in Atlanta Labor Day weekend.
If you want it done right,you need to call Aric at Injected. He's somewhat local to you,and is a honest person that'll do a good job for you.
JL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I wasn't aware he did machine work. I already know he is getting the car for the dyno tune and such. But either way the parts are at Pro Line, and they are for sure of of the best in the area, afterall they built one of the fastest Mustangs on the planet. That and I have never heard a bad word about them, and I know alot of guys that have had motors built there. But I appreciate the heads up just the same, thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well it seems I can't win for losing here. I got a call from Pro Line yesterday, apparently the first machine shop bored the block .030 over instead of .020 like they told. I called down there to figure out wtf, and the guy says he told me it had to go that far blah blah blah. Anyways, I won't get that far into that aspect of it, but I wanted your opinions, how bad off would I be with this block .030 over now?? I know it's not recomended to go more than .020 over, should I get it resleeved, or will it be allright the way it is??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
No engine advice but, you need to check your receipt form the 1st shop and possibly call BBB, and Chamber of Commerce
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,417 Posts
No engine advice but, you need to check your receipt form the 1st shop and possibly call BBB, and Chamber of Commerce
I would do the same thing as well. Its uncalled for that they bored it further than you asked and didnt tell you about it. Now you have .020 over pistons for a .030 over block!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Well calls to BBB or anything of the like will prolly not be answered. The receipt just say block cleaning, overbore and thats all no specifics given. And I talked to the guy that did all the work and he swears he told me it had to go .030 over. So basically my word against his. And I am experienced enough to know thats a losing battle to fight. From my point of view that block didn't need to be bored at all, but what do I know, I figured this guy had at least somewhat of a clue as to what he was talking about. But I can say this I never in a million years would have told him ok bore it .030 over, because I know that is not recomended. Now I have .020 over brand new pistons and rings, and a .030 over block. But barring a resleeve, if I was to come up with .030 over pistons and rings would I be ok, or looking at a motor that was going to run hot on me, or be weak on me??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,194 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Well a trip to Pro Line today, they said they wouldn't even consider sleeveing that block. Said it was to expensive, that I could buy 3 or 4 more blocks for what it would take to resleeve it. But they did say I should experience no trouble with the motor being .030 over. Good part of that is when I went to talk to them I went back into the shop area to get my pistons, I saw at least 5 4.6 motors being assembled, so I'm gonna hope they have a good idea what they are talking about. And I called the place I got the new pistons and rings from, they said no problem to do a straight swap to what I need, so a good news day I'd say. So off to the post office tomorrow with the pistons, and then hopefully I can get this back on track.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
Glad to hear, but still file a complaint with the BBB.
 
1 - 20 of 124 Posts
Top