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Discussion Starter #1
I've been reading through the posts here for hours (and on markviii.org) and was wondering what everyones (esp. Mark M. TCCoA VP's) opinion was on the Addco bars for my Mark VIII?
I want to improve the handling (cornering) but do not want a extremely harsh ride. From what I've read, it looks like going to the 1 3/8" set I won't like.
I was thinking of the 1 1/4" front bar paired with the 1 3/8" rear...
Do you think this will be a good setup? I'd get the advantage of bigger bars, plus the slightly bigger rear bar will help with the understeer? (correct me if I'm wrong plzs!)
Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Jon
 

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i know a bigger bar in the rear compared to the front will give you slight oversteer in turns. when i put my 1.25" bar in the rear i left the front one stock and the oversteer went up but it wasnt as harsh as my buddys 1 3/8s bar.
 

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1 1/4" front and 1 1/4" rear is the best setup for ride and handling and 1 3/8" F/R for flat out handing with a little stiffer ride over the 1 1/4" setup. I have the 1 3/8" setup and would not change it for the world and the ride is fine. Hope this helps.,
Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys!
So going with same sized bars won't leave the car with understeer still and just better body control? Thats why I figured on the different sized ones?! I really don't think 1 3/8" will be to my liking though in a daily driver...
 

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go with the same size, and if you still have understeer, there are better ways to change it than mismatched bars.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
GreenBird said:
go with the same size, and if you still have understeer, there are better ways to change it than mismatched bars.
Can you expand on this answer at all please (about better ways?)
Thanks :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Icarus said:
Can you expand on this answer at all please (about better ways?)
Thanks :)
...GreenBird, could you elaborate a bit on this please?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I haven't gotten any definate info other than Mark M's, so don't know for sure still whether to go with matched 1 1/4" bars, or one sized bigger in the rear so to rid the car of any understeer (with possible slight oversteer>?), or ???
Greenbird, I was hoping you might let me know a bit more about what you said too as I value all advice and opinions but still haven't gotten much :(
Thanks again all :)
Jon
 

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If you go with a smaller rear bar you will end up with some understeer like you have now with the stock bars. I am the person responsible for developing the 1 1/4" and 1 3/8" ADDCO bars in the first place way back in 1998-1999 and have tested every combo extensively. All these larger bars for the MN12s and FN10s come with a install sheet from ADDCO with my name on the bottom so trust me on this.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry, I meant should I go with say, 1 3/8 in the rear and 1 1/4 in the front, this will induce more oversteer (how much I don't know) which is actually the way I prefer a car to drive slightly (by throttle)...
Mark, I do value your opinion over any others as I know you went through the development with Addco (hence the title of the post ;) ) I'm just confused a bit seeing as I have gotten split answers even from other than race too...
I'm just trying to get & make the best informed decision I can seeing as getting bars up here is a bit tougher...
 

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A smaller rear bar (1 3/8" F- 1 1/4" R) will give you under steer. A larger rear bar 1 3/8" F and 1 1/4" R will give you over steer. An MN12 with our IRS system and a balanced set of bars will give you a very neutral setup and that is what I recommend. The only exception to this is a stock front bar and a 1 /4" rear bar to put the system into a more neutral setup from the stock under steer setup. Most of the stock setups have around a 1.1" solid bar and a 15/16" hollow rear bar which gives you a lot of under steer.
 

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1 3/8 Front

``Hello

I am going to install a 1 3/8" front bar. Not sure about the rear bar.
I am making a custom adjustable sway bar link, Right front.

I get a big push coming out of the corners. When hard on the Gas it's worst.

It got better after we stiffened the rear shock towers.

We are currently building a New stock chassis. We are trying the stiffen the front spring towers & rear shock towers + replace the rubber bushings with something stiffer than stock.

We are also trying the get better rear weight %. Right now we have about 47%
We are only allowed 51% left side weight. Our total weight must be 3400lb.
These are numbers from the old chassis.

We are changing the bars for the new chassis. For better rigidness.
Remember this is a Oval track car, Street stock. 1/2 mile asphalt oval.

Any ideas?

Paul
 

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Tight courses may require more over steer, fast tracks under steer. It's going to take some trail and error to get your setup right so I can't give you a precise snap answer. But an opinion to start with if you ARE going with a 1 3/8" front bar I would start with the 1 3/8" rear and have a 1 1 /4" rear on hand to swap out. As you know there are sooo many variables for the track suspension setups but you have to start somewhere.
 

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Mark 8 suspension MN10 VS MN12 and sway bars.
To my understanding the Mark 8 comes with a wimpy tubular rear bar. The active suspension does some spring height control under loading.

Has anyone experienced a significant change on a Mark 8 with airbag/active when installing a larger solid bar?

I have had all sorts of bars on my Birds. I was most happy with the 1.04" Supercoupe or 1-1/4" bars on the rear. The 1-3/8 really seemed to affect the ride quality.

Running the 1-3/8 up front with a lighter bar in the back allowed for more power to be applied coming out of turns. Firm rear broke loose easy.

As for a circle track stocker, (the way I understand all this)
stiffer is not always better on handling. Remember that shocks really affect the handling especially during transitions in braking and throttle. A car that might push into a corner with a certain setup can often compensate by softening the front shocks to get bite at the turn-in. The same softer shock will shift more weight to the rear tires on acceleration and help with bite off the corner.
I'm sure you can find all sorts of info better than I can offer, but just don't get fooled by stiffer is better thinking.

BTW, I have converted my Mark 8 to springs. The Monroe replacements shocks that came with the kit suck!!!!. Going to try another pair and if that is a bust, Tokico's are going on the front. The rear sensa-trac shocks (did not come with kit) are a good fit overall. Many MN12 cars have these with good result.


One thing I fear now is that the rear bar is too light for safety in the turns. Wants to oversteer like crazy with factory size tires and this mushy front end.
 

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I can tell you what increased the oversteer the MOST on my car after upgrading the bars was a good shock tower brace. Holding the tops of the towers together really tightens up the steering. If you don't have it, get one..... make one..... whatever it takes. It's worth it. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thank you guys!!! :D I didn't get a notification about the posts after my last on 11-29 so didn't think anyone else had added anything.
I'll have to look into a shock tower brace later as I still have a bunch of stuff on the plate to do to the car so far, but I will do it too from the sounds of it...
I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with 1 1/4" F & R. With a shock tower brace to come later. I still have the full air suspension in good condition. This sounds like a good idea I guess, eh? ...even though the Marks came with the hollow bar origianlly, I don't think I need to plus size the rear vs. front?!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, it looks like I'm ordering a 1 1/4" set this week! :D

Thanks Mark and everyone for helping me decide which to go with. I think I'll be happy with the 1 1/4" as I don't want to loss as much ride comfort as the 1 3/8" set will take... I hope I'm not wrong, lol...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Mark, any final thoughts before I order the 1 1/4" matched bars for my Lincoln in a day or two... I'm making the right choice?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you Mark. I ordered the 1 1/4" set today. I think from all I've read and talking with you and Addco, that it should be enough bar for what I'm looking for. The service when I called Addco has been great so far!
I'll let you know when everything shows up :)
Jon
 
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