TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 94 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
680 Posts
Sad to hear about tragedies like this. . . It's one of those things that you feel so helpless and like things need to change, but it's so hard to attack an issue like this without encroaching on people's rights. God bless the victims and their families.

Stephen
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,926 Posts
I thought about starting a thread on this event.

I'll reserve comment on the specifics of the case for later; for now I just want to say God bless the children and the adult victims and their families. I am so so saddend for their loss. :(

I have a 3 year old myself. I can't imagine the anguish that those families are going through tonight - so close to Christmas.

There's going to be a great deal of national soul searching after this one. Things do need to change and I hope this is the catalyst to make that happen.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,828 Posts
Not that any other shootings don't, but this one made me especially sick when I heard it. I couldn't begin to imagine what the families must be going through or the classmates of these kids. Every detail that comes out is just more and more disturbing.
 

·
̇
Joined
·
3,702 Posts
I feel sorry for the families that lost their child..

My condolences go out to those families..It does hit home a little harder being a parent..

I hope this tragedy raises gun safety awareness and actions are taken to remedy anything like this from happening again..

:(



Rayo..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,997 Posts
That school shooting in Connecticut is awful. I do believe that there should be armed guards at all the schools. No one goes in or out without going through a front desk with a guard. When I worked at Wayne County Juvenile Detention, you had to go through extra layers of security in order to get to the kids areas. It took a half hour to go down the hall sometimes! I really believe that our schools should never allow parents or outside people access to the classrooms under any circumstance. This isn't the 1950's anymore.

While some people say guns are the problem, I tell them that someone could do a lot of damage with a kitchen knife too.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,961 Posts
I really believe that our schools should never allow parents or outside people access to the classrooms under any circumstance. This isn't the 1950's anymore.
That's a bit extreme. Sometimes non-school personnel do in fact need to enter school grounds for official school business. Granted I agree that the classrooms themselves need to be left for the teachers/school personnel, but parents do need access into schools for educational related reasons--meetings with teachers/counselors/administrators/etc. There [usually] aren't any special buildings/rooms that are physically separated from the main school campus that are reserved for parental visiting and the like. With the overcrowding in schools now a days, everything is everywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
That school shooting in Connecticut is awful. I do believe that there should be armed guards at all the schools. No one goes in or out without going through a front desk with a guard. When I worked at Wayne County Juvenile Detention, you had to go through extra layers of security in order to get to the kids areas. It took a half hour to go down the hall sometimes! I really believe that our schools should never allow parents or outside people access to the classrooms under any circumstance. This isn't the 1950's anymore.

While some people say guns are the problem, I tell them that someone could do a lot of damage with a kitchen knife too.
On my business trips to Israel, it always surprised me how many armed guards there were. Every hotel, every shopping center, etc. had an armed guard posted at the entrances.

Of course, the two big differences are that a) Israel's a small country -- with fewer places to "guard" than the US and b) nearly every citizen has to do military service to it's a good bet that every one of these guards has had military service. With only ~24-25M veterans, less than 10% of the US adult population has EVER served.

Instead of clamoring for more gun laws (which wouldn't have gotten the guns out of this guys hands), we should a) work on identifying ppl with mental illnesses earlier so that they may be treated before they go crazy b) enforcing the laws on the books and c) consider hiring more guards as a way to use our veterans (a group with higher than avg unemployment right now).

Of course, if you don't trust the veterans from going crazy themselves (and lets face it -- some Americans HATE the military and anyone associated with it), well, that's a bit of a problem.

-g

That's a bit extreme. Sometimes non-school personnel do in fact need to enter school grounds for official school business. Granted I agree that the classrooms themselves need to be left for the teachers/school personnel, but parents do need access into schools for educational related reasons--meetings with teachers/counselors/administrators/etc. There [usually] aren't any special buildings/rooms that are physically separated from the main school campus that are reserved for parental visiting and the like. With the overcrowding in schools now a days, everything is everywhere.
+1

Two examples:

1) Teachers don't repair plumbing.
2) parents of prospective students have a right (after scrutiny) to see the school classrooms in progress so they can decide if their kids should go there.
-g

PS. One final thought - my wife thought it was odd that a schoolteacher mother owned two registered 9mm handguns and an AR. While I do know some middle aged women who shoot regularly in my gun club, the Occam's razor answer is that she bought these guns for her son b/c her son couldn't buy/own them himself. It's been reported by ABC news that he had a personality disorder that was being treated with medication. WTF buys their kid on mental meds guns?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
+1
Two examples:
1) Teachers don't repair plumbing.
2) parents of prospective students have a right (after scrutiny) to see the school classrooms in progress so they can decide if their kids should go there.
-g

PS. One final thought - my wife thought it was odd that a schoolteacher mother owned two registered 9mm handguns and an AR. While I do know some middle aged women who shoot regularly in my gun club, the occam's razor answer is that she bought these guns for her son b/c her son couldn't buy/own them himself. It's been reported by ABC news that he had a personality disorder that was being treated with medication. WTF buys their kid on mental meds guns?
I've been wondering about the gun details, too. Like the rest of the country, I have questions. I sincerely doubt she bought these weapons for her son, but who knows. I'm sure she has some close friends that know answers regarding her guns, but they sure aren't going to be talking anytime soon.

Horrible occurrence and I can't pray enough for everyone directly or indirectly involved...
 

·
Beer and Cheese
Joined
·
7,386 Posts
My wife and I are sickened by this shooting, yet all of them are hard to bear. This one is the worst by far. We pray for the families that are hurting right now and ask that you watch over them and keep them strong.
 

·
West Virginia Chapter Director /, MA Drag Race Te
Joined
·
2,643 Posts
It is such a trajedy!!!

Regardless you can't blame the gun which all the anti gunners are going to want to do. The gun didn't walk in the school and cause this horrific situation and loss of life. An insanely evil person did utilizing the weapon.

I feel so sorry for the families as trunk Monkey has mentioned with the loss and particularly so close to Christmas.

1 thing we must all understand. Whether its a school full of Children, a theatre full of people, a college full of adult students all it takes is 1 instance of someone wanting to perform such an act to make it happen. Regardless of how well prepared you can be you can NEVER cover ALL the scenarios. Its just that simple.

I think of the situations at Virginia Tech and the Theatre shooting and wonder what would have happened had there been concealed weapon permit holders within those situations at the time they would have occurred. When someone directs fire on innocent people with no fear of retaliation they will do as they please. If a carry permit holder had dropped a couple rounds in him once he opened fire how long would the onslaught have lasted and how many more people may have been alive?

You can play out a million scenarios with this but regardless of making weapons harder to get etc, it just doesn't fit the bill. Most that want them will find a way regardless. About the same as a drunk, a bottle and a car.

Some schools currently have police stationed in them, generally one or two at most. Most lock down the school other than a main entrance door once classes have begun. An insane killer looking to wreak havoc and death know that when they come in. First one they meet when they walk in the door would be the officer. The first one killed likely would be the officer then who's to protect the rest.

Not ranting, just stating what is fact. The real fact is there are too many loose cannon's in the brain that regardless of how hard we try, we'll never be able to fully eradicate this situation. That is sad to say the least. Unfortuantely, its the world in which we live.

Again, my condolences to the all the families that lost children and loved ones during this ordeal.
You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. May GOD's blessings and peace be with you during such a trying time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
It happened and it couldn't be stopped. Could have done it with an: ax, chainsaw, air compressor, propane tank, cordless saw....

IMO the best way to reduce the likelihood, remove the ban on weapons from school. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. If I'm going to try and cause the most mayhem I'd go where there is the least amount of defense.

As for who/how the weapons were bought--big deal. My dad had connections for M-16s and much more military hardware 35+ years ago as a teenager, and that was in western Kentucky.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
On my business trips to Israel, it always surprised me how many armed guards there were. Every hotel, every shopping center, etc. had an armed guard posted at the entrances.
It's quite common in other countries as well, although they may not be openly carrying.

I personally think it is a fatal attraction to ban weapons at institutions where the public is involved. If weapons are banned, you better provide armed security. Not many "crazies" out there are crazy enough to start a shootout where there may be an armed response.

As such, the caveat "an armed society is a polite society" holds a lot of truth.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,410 Posts
It's quite common in other countries as well, although they may not be openly carrying.

I personally think it is a fatal attraction to ban weapons at institutions where the public is involved. If weapons are banned, you better provide armed security. Not many "crazies" out there are crazy enough to start a shootout where there may be an armed response.

As such, the caveat "an armed society is a polite society" holds a lot of truth.
I totally agree; we're making shooting galleries for the crazies.

Responsible people with guns is the answer to Crazy people with guns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,716 Posts
This is just so amazingly sad. My heartfelt condolences to all those families. :(

These things were completely unheard of back when I was in school. Now it's almost a @#$ trend. I have my theories, but will leave them out out of respect for this time of mourning.

Just can't believe it....all the completely overwhelming grief that these victims' families are now forced to bear now especially during a time that families are supposed to be together......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
China yesterday a 36 year old man stabs and kills 22 children. Even though were going to hear and maybe see some sort of gun control, this wont fix the problem. Prayers sent to the family who were effected. Its sad we have sick people who live in this world.


This is just so amazingly sad. My heartfelt condolences to all those families. :(

These things were completely unheard of back when I was in school. Now it's almost a @#$ trend. I have my theories, but will leave them out out of respect for this time of mourning.

Just can't believe it....all the completely overwhelming grief that these victims' families are now forced to bear now especially during a time that families are supposed to be together......
Actually this isnt true. You just didnt hear about it, school shootings have happened since the 1700's and school violence before guns were around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,997 Posts
That's a bit extreme. Sometimes non-school personnel do in fact need to enter school grounds for official school business. Granted I agree that the classrooms themselves need to be left for the teachers/school personnel, but parents do need access into schools for educational related reasons--meetings with teachers/counselors/administrators/etc. There [usually] aren't any special buildings/rooms that are physically separated from the main school campus that are reserved for parental visiting and the like. With the overcrowding in schools now a days, everything is everywhere.
Janitors and folks who fix things aren't the issue. In my security scenario would entail doors that only open from either the guard at the desk or remotely open based from a central location. Go to any county or federal jail and see how hard it is to move from place to place. You have to usually push a button, announce who you are and WAIT. If this guy had locked doors that he couldn't get through, we would have had a lot more kids alive instead of dead. Instead, you might have either avoided the incident completely because he knew he couldn't get in or 1 dead officer (not minimizing the officer's life here, just saying it would have turned out different).

More security is the answer with no unauthorized visitors allowed to roam the halls. If a parent needs to see a classroom or a kid, they should be patted down and escorted. Making things harder keeps things like this from happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
James, so you just by pass security.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
 
1 - 20 of 94 Posts
Top