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Pinto's actually had damn good engines. Similar to the industrial engines used for example in forklifts, and heads of airport luggage trains. Way better than Vega engines.

Remember the Bobcat? Friend had a station wagon one with the fake wood going down the side. Ha ha...

Anyway, thanks for posting. Always in to in depth knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter #142
Most welcome race ;)

Ya buddy I remember the mercury bobcat, My first wife had a vega with steel sleeves put in the block .It was a decent car . Her mom had a Pinto gave no trouble but no power.
 

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Most welcome race ;)

Ya buddy I remember the mercury bobcat, My first wife had a vega with steel sleeves put in the block .It was a decent car . Her mom had a Pinto gave no trouble but no power.
Am I to understand that those aluminum block/cast iron head Vega engines came from the factory with no steal sleeves?

Always liked the styling of the Vega over the Pinto. Install a split bumper on the front, and what ah ya' got?

Plenty of V8 Vegas. Not so much Pintos. Pintos can look decent tho'.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/Mrpinto/pinto79.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/Mrpinto/Pinto restoration/stuff027.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #144 (Edited)
That is what I remember the word was back then on them . Her's was a 73 I believe, it had the ungraded OEM Holley 2-barrel as well.

Found this :

"The piston walls were steel, but the aluminum engine warped so much, the piston walls also warped and could not be sleeved, thus a throw away motor."
 

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Early vegas had aluminum cylinders.
That's why they all burned oil.
 

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Early vegas had aluminum cylinders.
That's why they all burned oil.
OMG! Aluminum cylinder walls, and cast iron heads. Next you'll be telling me the pistons are plastic.
 

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:uppoint:
 

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That's why they were Infamous for leaking head gaskets. :)

An aluminum head on an iron block gets tighter to an extent as it gets hotter; on those cars they got looser the hotter they got. (not sure how that worked, but search around; I knew older guys that tried to race them in the 70s. :) )

One really good over heat, and they beat themselves to death running. :eek:
 

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Fram sucks. Don't use them. I also did not like Driveworks. I purchased their equivalent of the FL1A and my 5 liter knocked on start up. I changed the filter and it went away.
 

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Interesting that royal purple 10w30 synthetic is 2 qualification standards behind and still green.
 

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Well, at least the L24651 or PL24651 didn't fail.
 

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Excellent link to actual real test data from an independent laboratory.

I always use Pennzoil conventional 5w30 in my Thunderbird, and I found it very interesting to compare that brand with other brands often mentioned on TCCoA.

For instance, Mobil Clean 5000, compared to the Pennzoil, show superior numbers in certain categories, yet the Pennzoil fares better in others. But these differences, at least between these two oils, is marginal. What's important to know is not to use some of those oils at all, in anything, not even a lawnmower. Like Xtreme 2000 Super Premium. Super Premium...HA!

I found the information about phosphorus something I was not aware of.

"The phosphorus content of new oil is typically associated with zinc dialkyldithiophosphate antiwear additives (ZDDP). Antiwear additives are used to reduce wear by limiting the friction of moving parts. They do so by forming a thin protective film on metal surfaces. Low phosphorus could indicates that there may not be enough anti-wear protection of the oil, however this could be compensated by adding a non-phosphorus containing aniwear additive High Phosphorus levels can lead to emission system failures due to catalytic converter poisoning The current API standards for passenger car engine oils (API SM, SN, and ILSAC GF-5) require phosphorus to be between 600 to 800 ppm to provide sufficient wear protection while guarding against catalytic converter poisoning (shown by the area in green). The amber area takes into account the precision of the test method. Results in the red area do not meet current API passenger car motor oil standards."




Interesting stuff. Noted since my cats have 154k on them.

Thanks Darren for posting.

The educated shopper....
 

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Discussion Starter #157
Most welcome Rush , Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is very popular but seems hard to find.

I remember back in the day Pennz was made from Pennsylvania Grade Crude :usa:

I run Amsoil SS 5W30 in the 96 for its excellent protection package.

Mobil 5K 5W30 with the other rides

High Phosphorus levels doing harm to cats ......I have read that before .
 

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Yeah, I see that in the link. Pennzoil is based in Texas. Now I'm wondering if brands of motor oil, sold in the U.S., come from wells in N. America.

I've been running the conventional oil in the Thunderbird ever since I've owned it. So that would be about 79k miles. What's your take on switching to a full synthetic? Any concerns?

Yes, the part about Phosphorus is from the link you provided.
 

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Discussion Starter #159

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http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/

Y'know I had to read that a couple of times before it sank it in on what it was exactly saying. My head cocked to the side, I'm like...What the?... Am I understanding this correctly?:confused:

Here is an excerpt from the article.


Quote.
The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear

In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered. End quote.

I think what this means is as the oil runs in the engine for a longer period of time the additives that act as a metal treatment form thicker/bond stronger. This make perfect sense. But, what I don't quite understand is why the same formation of the treatment of metal would also not occur if the oil was replaced with fresh oil every 3000 miles. Why better results leaving the oil for 12 to 15000 miles.

The only thing I can think of is that there is some sort of chemical reaction that occurs as the oil gets older allowing the release of such additives to bond more readily with metal parts.

..."although several other factors must to be considered." Yeah, like dirt/sand/water, and contaminates caused by blow by.

Very interesting, counter intuitive study. However, I don't think I'll be changing my oil service intervals anytime soon. Especially with conventional oil.

The other link is interesting too. I wasn't aware not to use synthetic oil when breaking in flat tappet cams. Or that synthetic oil may not allow the lifers to rotate.

Do the followers on the 4.6 rotate?
 
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