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The Parts Guy
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The other link is interesting too. I wasn't aware not to use synthetic oil when breaking in flat tappet cams. Or that synthetic oil may not allow the lifers to rotate.

Do the followers on the 4.6 rotate?
The cam followers on the 4.6 rotate; they're roller followers. The lash adjusters do not. It's a completely different animal compared to a flat tappet OHV arrangement.
 

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The cam followers on the 4.6 rotate; they're roller followers. The lash adjusters do not. It's a completely different animal compared to a flat tappet OHV arrangement.
Ah, yes, thank you. I realize now it is indeed a completely different animal. I think I get confused sometimes because I hear/read sohc valve train parts labeled with different names for the same part. Or the follower is called a "lifter".

It is a "roller rocker arm follower". A Class 2 lever with a roller load point.


The one on the left is a roller rocker arm follower with a roller adjuster, right?


It's clear to me now there is no need to worry about using synthetic oil on our engines, since a taper in the cam lobe does not cause a lifter to rotate, like on an ohv engine.
 

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The Parts Guy
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I think I get confused sometimes because I hear/read sohc valve train parts labeled with different names for the same part. Or the follower is called a "lifter".
Yep, the lash adjuster is all too often called a "lifter" and the cam follower a "rocker arm". People get stuck in their OHV ways. :D

The follower on the left in your picture would be considered a roller-tip roller cam follower. The roller at the tip eliminates friction at the valve stem tip.
 

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Super Moderator
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Who makes the follower on the left?

It also has a smaller oil bleed hole...

That looks even pricer than the GT follower. :)
 

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Yep, the lash adjuster is all too often called a "lifter" and the cam follower a "rocker arm". People get stuck in their OHV ways. :D

The follower on the left in your picture would be considered a roller-tip roller cam follower. The roller at the tip eliminates friction at the valve stem tip.
Thanks much for the clarifications. I so often read posts where someone writes something like, "My 4.6 has roller rockers", and I go..."Huh?". I'm kind of a stickler for correct terminology of such things.:)
 

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The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear

In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered.
Counterintuitive, to put it mildly. As much as I want to try this out, it's just not going to happen.

I suspect the filter was not changed until the appointed intervals. I've long been one to believe that the dirtier a filter gets, the "better" it works. That is, as the filter media fills up, the captured particles start to clog, stopping smaller particles that would otherwise pass through. Although this could cause a flow performance issue, the filter is no doubt doing a better job of filtering.
 

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When I was going to school I changed the oil in my Cougar every 2000 miles. That engine still spun a bearing. My SC let the VMM tell me and only issue it has had is last motor dropped a valve.

I am inclined to lean in agreement with the article.
 

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WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
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Eh, I change my oil and filter every 5,000 miles. Almost 180,000 miles with no issues....knock on wood.
 

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I change my oil every 5,000 miles as well on both my Bird and Accord. Neither have had any engine problems. The Accord is currently at 273k miles and my Bird is at 175k miles.
 

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Voice/Data Guru
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Discussion Starter #171
;)

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Finally felt one of these thinner can Motorcraft filters.

If I put the filter on, I know I can get it off by hand. Changed the oil on my 2000 Grand Marquis (the 260k change, so I have changed the oil at least 50 times on it having put 245k miles on it) and gripping it halfway between the gasket end and the capped end, went to twist and could tell I collapsed it to the filter media. I had to grip it on the end with the flutes, I could still feel it collapsing, but not too bad.
 

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Counterintuitive, to put it mildly. As much as I want to try this out, it's just not going to happen.

I suspect the filter was not changed until the appointed intervals. I've long been one to believe that the dirtier a filter gets, the "better" it works. That is, as the filter media fills up, the captured particles start to clog, stopping smaller particles that would otherwise pass through. Although this could cause a flow performance issue, the filter is no doubt doing a better job of filtering.
Interesting hypothesis. But, it maybe taking one step forward only to take two steps back. Or, until the bypass valve activates.

bowez said:
When I was going to school I changed the oil in my Cougar every 2000 miles. That engine still spun a bearing. My SC let the VMM tell me and only issue it has had is last motor dropped a valve.

I am inclined to lean in agreement with the article.

Are you sure those failures can't be contributed to factors other than the age of the oil?

ThunderChecken said:
Slapstick dipstick commercial
I remember that one. :rofl:
 

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Voice/Data Guru
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Discussion Starter #174
Additive depletion

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Virtual Reality Arc Welding

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/R47MY3gyTSc?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/R47MY3gyTSc?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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Let's not over analize this.
Oil filters are a safety precaution.
Gasoline engines do not need oil filters.
But due to the expense of some of them, the manufacturer
Included them.
Look at 4 cycle lawn mower engine etc....
 

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Super Moderator
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10,298 Posts
Let's not over analize this.
Oil filters are a safety precaution.
Gasoline engines do not need oil filters.
But due to the expense of some of them, the manufacturer
Included them.
Look at 4 cycle lawn mower engine etc....
I completely and totally disagree; the quality of your oil is directly proportional to the overall lifetime.

With today's oils, debris accumulation is a bigger problem than oil breakdown.

Miniscule grains of carbon accumulate in the oil at a rate determined by ring leakage, cylinder washdown, egr recycling; lots of factors accumulate carbon in our oil, the eventual cleanser of all things interior to the engine.

The filter is the only thing that keeps the long chains of crap out of the bearings.

A two stage filter setup is even better, If you use a finer filter medium in the second filter.
In this kind of a setup, you might be able to go 10k miles on good oil. :) By changing the filters...

I get 2500 out of Lazarus at 230k before it loads up with black crap; that's what tells me it's time to go.
I add a half can of seafoam, drive to the store for beer, drain it for a beer when I get back, then the filter will be cool enough to remove. :)

Cheap Lawnmower engines don't have filters, real engines do; those engines people care about. :D

My 2-stroke dirt bike does not have a filter. But no oil lasts for two rides, so it works out. :) I always change it when I get back.
 

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The only automotive engine that I can think of off hand that wasn't manufactured with an oil filter is the 1955 Chevy 265. One was added, I believe a dealer item, that attached by the T-sat.
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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G, what I'm saying is if there are large enough particles of crap in your oil,
that engine has bigger problems than filter medium.
 

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Super Moderator
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The only automotive engine that I can think of off hand that wasn't manufactured with an oil filter is the 1955 Chevy 265. One was added, I believe a dealer item, that attached by the T-sat.
Huh.

So, the Model T motor was never made?

How about most any of the Studebaker flat head motors?

Oil filters used to be an option on most cars, if it was even available.

OH! Don't forget the FIRST Chevy V8, the one without valve covers, back in the 20's.

RwP
 
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