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Discussion Starter #1
All:
I'm starting on a hub swap as my next project (AFTER I mount my new Bimarco grip halo seat) as I finally found a deal on 4 mustang 17" wheels for $100 (the ugly 94-95 17s for a reasonable price were harder than expected to find here in CA and I still need 2-4 more as race spares).
I now have a few questions:

1) I know I need (4) front hubs aka F6ZZ-1104-AA. Need four b/c I have two spindles on my car and two as race spares (because lemons racecar).

2) For the spindle attachment nuts, I see the ford part # quoted: F3LY-3B447-A
Q: However, when looking for front retainer nuts on ford parts websites, I find this part # instead: W710084-S439 for both tbird and mustangs. Is this the one I want?
https://www.fordgenuineautoparts.com/oem-parts/ford-retainer-nut-w710084s439/

3) Front Rotors: I know I will need to have (4) front rotors to match the new bolt pattern (again: on car + racespares) but since Mustang Rotors are so cheap ($20/ea on Rockauto), I'm not sure that redrilling them is worth the effort and/or labor cost. Any problems with using Mustang rotors? Tbird rotors are 10.87" and the Mustang rotors are 10.88". I'm currently using the mustang calipers (PBR swap) and mustang caliper brackets on my existing tbird spindles so I don't think the 0.01" will mess me up but it would be nice to get confirmation here.
Q: Please LMK if you think using mustang vs tbird front rotors will be an issue...

4) Rear hubs: I know i need to redrill them and MM has already offered me a DIY tool which should allow me to redrill both my rear rotors and the existing hubs. This means that i just need to buy new studs
ARP 100-7703 (1/2-20in or Moroso 46185 x 5)

Q: Since I believe my existing rear axle bearings are original (from 93-95 depending on which donor they came from), should I replace them? I dont' feel any slop with the wheel in the air but these have gone through a LOT of abuse over the last few years
Q: Do I need to pack the bearings with Moly grease during the install?
Q: If I do so, what do I need to replace besides the bearings themselves? I see a bearing retaining ring that they recommend you replace (at $1 that's a no-brainer) and I see other feedback that you should also replace the spindle nut. If so, what is the part # for the spindle nut?

Thanks in advance for your answers. As with my splitport and 5.0 swap, I'll write up a DIY when I start this project.
Regards,
-g
 

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Comments and random thoughts:

Use the motorcraft nuts; DO NOT use the dorman ones, they ruin the spindle. GM has a thread somewhere here about it. :)

The mustang fronts are the same; I was given a mustang set of disks early on in my mn12 career (lol), and the only thing different is the holes.

MM is a really nice guy. :)

I would redo the bearings; they're cheap, and easy to replace with a press or even a jaw type puller, as I've seen on the web. I have a press.

They are "SET 49" TIMKEN bearings, look between the inner races and see if there's grease; I use Timken Grease.

In my experience with 3 sets so far, Some are greased, some are not, lol.

There's a circlip that you remove; I've never replaced it, it sits in a deep groove, and the load is sideways, if at all.

I'd spend for new axles; rebuilt ones are $60, and our OG ones can be rebuilt. Rayo mentioned using a piece of PVC pipe to disassemble them, and it works great.

Avoid slotted disks; they vibrate like hell on heavy braking, drilled only is better. :)
 

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i just pulled a set of cobra rear hubs with less than 1000 miles on them off of my car that one could buy really cheap
 

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How cheap? >:)

Dibs if price is right, and S4Gunn doesn't want them; this isn't my thread. :)
 

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1) Sounds reasonable.
2) I have always re-used those nuts. I know Ford says not to, but I have done it hundreds of times, on cars that have then driven hundreds of thousands of miles, and I have never had one back off. A couple times, the nuts were rusted up, and I wasn't comfortable re-using them, but that was only when the center cap had been missing, and these were cars in NJ. Given that you are in California, they should be fine.
3) The Mustang rotors will obviously work fine with the Mustang hubs and Mustang calipers. Actually the Tbird rotors won't even work with the Mustang hubs because the hub bore is different. I don't see any reason to buy 4 rotors since they are not likely to get broken in an accident. Given that you have 17" wheels now though, I would forget about those brakes and run the 13" cobra brake setup in the front. You will never be able to corner faster than the miatas and e30s, but if you can out-run them on the straights and out brake them going into the corners, then you can pretty consistently pull away from them.
4) Re-drilling the rear hubs is definitely the cheapest way out. Doing that, you re-drill the hubs and the rotors. With the tool I have, you can do it on the car, and then as long as your bearings don't have any play and aren't making any noise, there is no reason to mess with them. Another option for the rears is to replace the hubs with 99-04 Cobra rear hubs, but those are not available aftermarket, and are quite expensive. This option will also pretty much require new bearings, since they usually get damaged pressing the hub out, and it would also require cobra rear rotors and caliper relocation brackets. If you do press the hubs out and get new bearings, just press them in as they are. Do not add grease or take the new bearings apart. The retaining snap ring is sometimes re-usable, but sometimes it gets bent during removal, so if you are pressing the bearings out, those would be good to have on hand. Also sometimes the hubs themselves will be worn on the shaft that presses into the hub, but that usually only happens if the bearings are shot and you keep driving on it. As for the rear spindle nut, they are obsolete from Ford, and the aftermarket ones are not right, so the general consensus now is to double them up to prevent it from loosening up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i just pulled a set of cobra rear hubs with less than 1000 miles on them off of my car that one could buy really cheap
Thanks for the offer but since it seems like I would need the caliper relocation brackets and Cobra rotors, I'm going to pass.
I'm sure Grog6 will give them a good home.
-g
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
1) Sounds reasonable.
2) I have always re-used those nuts. I know Ford says not to, but I have done it hundreds of times, on cars that have then driven hundreds of thousands of miles, and I have never had one back off. A couple times, the nuts were rusted up, and I wasn't comfortable re-using them, but that was only when the center cap had been missing, and these were cars in NJ. Given that you are in California, they should be fine.
3) The Mustang rotors will obviously work fine with the Mustang hubs and Mustang calipers. Actually the Tbird rotors won't even work with the Mustang hubs because the hub bore is different. I don't see any reason to buy 4 rotors since they are not likely to get broken in an accident. Given that you have 17" wheels now though, I would forget about those brakes and run the 13" cobra brake setup in the front. You will never be able to corner faster than the miatas and e30s, but if you can out-run them on the straights and out brake them going into the corners, then you can pretty consistently pull away from them.
4) Re-drilling the rear hubs is definitely the cheapest way out. Doing that, you re-drill the hubs and the rotors. With the tool I have, you can do it on the car, and then as long as your bearings don't have any play and aren't making any noise, there is no reason to mess with them. Another option for the rears is to replace the hubs with 99-04 Cobra rear hubs, but those are not available aftermarket, and are quite expensive. This option will also pretty much require new bearings, since they usually get damaged pressing the hub out, and it would also require cobra rear rotors and caliper relocation brackets. If you do press the hubs out and get new bearings, just press them in as they are. Do not add grease or take the new bearings apart. The retaining snap ring is sometimes re-usable, but sometimes it gets bent during removal, so if you are pressing the bearings out, those would be good to have on hand. Also sometimes the hubs themselves will be worn on the shaft that presses into the hub, but that usually only happens if the bearings are shot and you keep driving on it. As for the rear spindle nut, they are obsolete from Ford, and the aftermarket ones are not right, so the general consensus now is to double them up to prevent it from loosening up.
2) What's a center cap? :) I think I sold mine years ago so I need to check the condition of my spindle nuts.

3) How confident are you that my rear bearings aren't all buggered up? They are original but don't wobble when they are in the air and I push on the wheel. I supposed that if I notice them getting shitty, I can always swap axles to another one of questionable repute (I come to the track with 2 spares after all).

4) Thanks for the guidance on the rear spindle nuts. I don't have 2x them and the Dorman ones will bugger up the threads so I'll have to see what I can do here (maybe make a JY run to get spare rear spindle/hub nuts w/ my impact gun).


NOTE: I found that Autozone Loan-a-tool has a torque wrench that goes to 250ft-lb so I think I'm good
OEM 1/2 in. drive adjustable click type torque wrench 27043 - Read 3 Reviews on OEM #27043
 

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3) How confident are you that my rear bearings aren't all buggered up? They are original but don't wobble when they are in the air and I push on the wheel. I supposed that if I notice them getting shitty, I can always swap axles to another one of questionable repute (I come to the track with 2 spares after all).

4) Thanks for the guidance on the rear spindle nuts. I don't have 2x them and the Dorman ones will bugger up the threads so I'll have to see what I can do here (maybe make a JY run to get spare rear spindle/hub nuts w/ my impact gun).


NOTE: I found that Autozone Loan-a-tool has a torque wrench that goes to 250ft-lb so I think I'm good
OEM 1/2 in. drive adjustable click type torque wrench 27043 - Read 3 Reviews on OEM #27043
If the wheel has no play with it in the air, the bearing is fine. The bearing is pressed into the knuckle, then the hub pressed into the bearing. So a spare would need to be an entire knuckle with the same bolt pattern hub. The axle (I assume you mean the CV/halfshaft) wouldn't help a bad hub bearing.

I have bought the caged rear axle nuts new a few years ago. You could probably find some NOS but I just double them up. The Dorman ones that are bad I think are for the front. I'm not sure what the new recommended OEM replacement is. I bought the longest HF breaker bar they have (25"?) and just put all my weight on it to 'torque' the nut. Then do the same for the second nut.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If the wheel has no play with it in the air, the bearing is fine. The bearing is pressed into the knuckle, then the hub pressed into the bearing. So a spare would need to be an entire knuckle with the same bolt pattern hub. The axle (I assume you mean the CV/halfshaft) wouldn't help a bad hub bearing.

I have bought the caged rear axle nuts new a few years ago. You could probably find some NOS but I just double them up. The Dorman ones that are bad I think are for the front. I'm not sure what the new recommended OEM replacement is. I bought the longest HF breaker bar they have (25"?) and just put all my weight on it to 'torque' the nut. Then do the same for the second nut.
My front spares are the entire spindle/hub assemblies. I will be swapping the hubs out on those.
My rear race spares are axle+knuckle sets. I will be redrilling those rear hubs for the new bolt pattern.

Thanks for the guidance on how you tightened it.

If I find a bad hub bearing at the track, I'll just swap axles. We did that in our last race when we lost a wheel (the studs sheared off).
-g
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I ordered the front hubs yesterday and took a look at my spare front spindles.

Q: How are the dust covers stuck on the hubs?
Before I drill a hole and/or destroy them taking off the covers, are replacements available?

While I don't think dust covers are absolutely necessary for us (car is garaged and only goes out once or twice a year), we DO race in the rain though so having them is better than not having them.
 

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When removing with a prying device with a steel forcing device :grin2:, be extremely careful not to
pierce the dust car.

In other words, be easy with the hammer and screw driver or you are going to put a hole in the lip.
 

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When removing with a prying device with a steel forcing device :grin2:, be extremely careful not to
pierce the dust car.

In other words, be easy with the hammer and screw driver or you are going to put a hole in the lip.
Just beat the **** out of it
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I love how these two answers contradict themselves!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 

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Use a small chisel and a small hammer, and tap the chisel in right where the cap meets the hub, and it will come out. To re-install, just use the small hammer to tap it in around the edge.
 

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Use a small chisel and a small hammer, and tap the chisel in right where the cap meets the hub, and it will come out. To re-install, just use the small hammer to tap it in around the edge.
Out of habit, I still fill these 1/2 way with grease, even tho it's a sealed bearing. :grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So I finished installing my Bimarco Grip seat last night (had to make an adapter to allow me to bolt it to my existing corbeau sliders) and started working on the front spindles (once I get the conversion fixture I'll tackle the rears).

I actually have (8) mustang front hubs in my office now because I realized I had bought the $40 timkin ones instead of the $20. If I was just buying one paid I'd probably suck it up and pay $80 for the fronts but I now need (4) of them -- 2 for the car and 2 for the race spares. It's a good opportunity to compare the two.

WJB WA513115
- Made in China
- Studs actually seem better than with TIMKIN
- Casting seems very similar

TIMKEN 513115 $41.79/ea
- Made in Japan; KOYO bearing
- Studs seem poorer quality.
- Casting seems very similar


I'm definitely keeping two of the cheaper ones for the race spares but should I use the TIMKINs on the racecar or just go with the cheaper ones?

LMK what you guys think.
-g
 

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Your going to utilize the stock bird calipers correct?

I was thinking of doing a full Mustang GT brake system on my hub swap, as I already have PBR calipers, all I would need would be the rear gt rotors on stock bird calipers, may cause the hub swap to just be the cost of new front rotors and used mustang GT wheels and tires.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
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Your going to utilize the stock bird calipers correct?

I was thinking of doing a full Mustang GT brake system on my hub swap, as I already have PBR calipers, all I would need would be the rear gt rotors on stock bird calipers, may cause the hub swap to just be the cost of new front rotors and used mustang GT wheels and tires.
You are confusing the front with the rear. I will write up an updated Hub swap DIY when I'm done but for starters, here's the basic gist:

Front: PBR mustang calipers, Mustang brackets , Mustang rotors , Mustang hubs, 93+ tbird spindles, tbird spindle nuts, (5) 1/2-20" lug nuts per side

Rear: stock T-bird calipers and brackets, ARP wheel studs, fixture to redrill stock hubs and rear tbird rotors


Alternative for rear: Cobra rear hubs, redrilled rotors or rear Cobra rotors (whatever it takes to match the bolt pattern), custom caliper relocation adapters ( which I didn't want to pay for), & tbird rear calipers.
 
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