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PostSlut
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joker77_2005 said:
an yes i am trying to blow this motor up so i can drop in a built bottom end
mike
you wanna know how to do it????

Heres what I did....I was racing my dad in his 01 Cobra....on the track. This was a long track. We started the race at 80mph...I started in 2nd, and immediately hit the N2O...I kept it on for at least 20 seconds....and then off, and then on a bit more, and then off, and then...you get the idea...we kept racing for a good ways, when all of a sudden, my car wouldn't go past 140mph anymore?????I was like what the heck?
Slowed down, gave it gas without the nitrous, and the car was sputtering really badly.
Drove it home, pulled the plugs, and cylinder numbers 1, 4, 5, and 8, the plugs in those cylinders, the ends were melted....even the porcelain.
So, I change plugs, start the car....still runs like crap. Do a compression test and lost compression in all 4 of those cylinders.
Long story not so short, when I pulled the heads, looked at the pistons, they were fine...perfect...finally checked the valves on the heads, those same cylinders were not sealing(the valves)....
So, after all the hell and abuse I put my 4.6l through, all it needed(before I swapped the 351W), would of been a valve job...if I knew what I know now, I probably would not have done the swap.

So theres kinda a way to kill the motor(which I really didn't)...
 

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LOL!!

maybe some of you guys have indestructible cars or something? I have been involved deeply with nitrous companies and race teams for the better part of 10 years. I have ran shots in excess of 250 HP on NMRA real street mustangs. I have tuned bruce hemmenger's real street nitrous car. I have worked with Mike Wood of NX in developing new nitrous systems and I have worked with Mike Nelson of NOS. I have seen first hand the damage of not tuning correctly, and I make it a mission to ensure that everyone knows the dangers of not tuning correctly with nitrous.

Some of you evidently enjoy being risky, and that is fine. I just wince every time I see posts like this bragging about getting away with running stock timing, platinum plugs, and spraying at 600 RPM, knowing that someone without experience out there is going to try it, blow his mill to shreds and blame it on nitrous oxide. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Continue to spray at 1000 RPM, on platinum plugs, with timing advanced. I have nothing to gain or lose from anyone taking my advice or leaving it.

The only major differences I see from the methods you guys are using and the mustang setups that I am extremely familiar with is that the car is heavier, alot of people here seem to like the ZEX kits (cant stand them myself) and the shot size is smaller.

Not using a window switch is risky, and that is a fact. I have "gotten away" not using one on 200 HP shots for several years, but it doesnt mean that I didnt need it.. it means I was lucky. If you can afford one there is no reason not to use it. I have blown an intake completely off of a car at 2000 RPM from intake detonation due to insufficient air speed... Then again, this was in a 5.0 with a much larger intake cross section area than a stock 4.6. That doesnt mean that you cant spray a stock 4.6 at such a low RPM, it means that it is risky to do.

As far as tagging the rev limiter on spray, and using stock gapped PLATINUM spark plugs on juice.. I have no idea what so ever how anyone ever got that to work. For reference, what do the spark plugs look like after something like that? What color are they? where are the timing marks at? As I said.. how anyone can get an engine to survive that is beyond my comprehension unless your nitrous system isnt working real well.

Im not saying you guys are full of it, but basicly everything that you guys can get to work is almost unheard of in the nitrous world, so I would like to know what you are doing that no one else is. Check out the nitrous sections on www.corral.net, www.ls1tech.com, or www.nitrousforums.com and see if you can find ANYONE else claiming to get away with tuning that risky... you guys have me stumped.
 

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well just come on down to mason dixon dragway and we will show you how we do it ,and bring all the n20 gurus too
hell my dad and i have a 62 galaxie 500 with a 312 y block that we have run a 200 wet shot on with stock timing and a wide open throttle switch and the only thing that scares me is if the 4 wheel drum brakes will slow it down and i know it weights more than a fully loaded mn12 car
 

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Supernatural said:
yeah, the only thing I can determine is that you guys are running a much smaller shot than I am used to messing with. The smallest shot I usually tune for is 125 or so. That may make up for the difference with the volatility.
btw im running a .54 nos jet and a .35 for the fuel pressure regulater jet,....so what kind of shot does that come out to ?
mike
 

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joker77_2005 said:
btw im running a .54 nos jet and a .35 for the fuel pressure regulater jet,....so what kind of shot does that come out to ?
mike

thats almost a 125 hp nitrous jet, with enough fuel for a 200 shot, so probably 80 HP as rich as it is jetted if this is a NOS style dry kit.

the ZEX dry kit doesnt use fuel pressure jets last I checked though. if you are talking about a wet kit, which I assume you are based on the jet sizes, its probably 130 at the flywheel.
 

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PostSlut
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Supernatural said:
LOL!!

maybe some of you guys have indestructible cars or something? I have been involved deeply with nitrous companies and race teams for the better part of 10 years. I have ran shots in excess of 250 HP on NMRA real street mustangs. I have tuned bruce hemmenger's real street nitrous car. I have worked with Mike Wood of NX in developing new nitrous systems and I have worked with Mike Nelson of NOS. I have seen first hand the damage of not tuning correctly, and I make it a mission to ensure that everyone knows the dangers of not tuning correctly with nitrous.

Some of you evidently enjoy being risky, and that is fine. I just wince every time I see posts like this bragging about getting away with running stock timing, platinum plugs, and spraying at 600 RPM, knowing that someone without experience out there is going to try it, blow his mill to shreds and blame it on nitrous oxide. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Continue to spray at 1000 RPM, on platinum plugs, with timing advanced. I have nothing to gain or lose from anyone taking my advice or leaving it.

The only major differences I see from the methods you guys are using and the mustang setups that I am extremely familiar with is that the car is heavier, alot of people here seem to like the ZEX kits (cant stand them myself) and the shot size is smaller.

Not using a window switch is risky, and that is a fact. I have "gotten away" not using one on 200 HP shots for several years, but it doesnt mean that I didnt need it.. it means I was lucky. If you can afford one there is no reason not to use it. I have blown an intake completely off of a car at 2000 RPM from intake detonation due to insufficient air speed... Then again, this was in a 5.0 with a much larger intake cross section area than a stock 4.6. That doesnt mean that you cant spray a stock 4.6 at such a low RPM, it means that it is risky to do.

As far as tagging the rev limiter on spray, and using stock gapped PLATINUM spark plugs on juice.. I have no idea what so ever how anyone ever got that to work. For reference, what do the spark plugs look like after something like that? What color are they? where are the timing marks at? As I said.. how anyone can get an engine to survive that is beyond my comprehension unless your nitrous system isnt working real well.

Im not saying you guys are full of it, but basicly everything that you guys can get to work is almost unheard of in the nitrous world, so I would like to know what you are doing that no one else is. Check out the nitrous sections on www.corral.net, www.ls1tech.com, or www.nitrousforums.com and see if you can find ANYONE else claiming to get away with tuning that risky... you guys have me stumped.

I'm posting what happend to myself as a warning to others....Don't do what I did....your motor will hate you for it eventually...

Heres a pic of the 4 plugs I was talking about...as you can see...they got hot!!!





 

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Supernatural said:
LOL!!

maybe some of you guys have indestructible cars or something? I have been involved deeply with nitrous companies and race teams for the better part of 10 years. I have ran shots in excess of 250 HP on NMRA real street mustangs. I have tuned bruce hemmenger's real street nitrous car. I have worked with Mike Wood of NX in developing new nitrous systems and I have worked with Mike Nelson of NOS. I have seen first hand the damage of not tuning correctly, and I make it a mission to ensure that everyone knows the dangers of not tuning correctly with nitrous.

Some of you evidently enjoy being risky, and that is fine. I just wince every time I see posts like this bragging about getting away with running stock timing, platinum plugs, and spraying at 600 RPM, knowing that someone without experience out there is going to try it, blow his mill to shreds and blame it on nitrous oxide. Take my advice with a grain of salt. Continue to spray at 1000 RPM, on platinum plugs, with timing advanced. I have nothing to gain or lose from anyone taking my advice or leaving it.

The only major differences I see from the methods you guys are using and the mustang setups that I am extremely familiar with is that the car is heavier, alot of people here seem to like the ZEX kits (cant stand them myself) and the shot size is smaller.

Not using a window switch is risky, and that is a fact. I have "gotten away" not using one on 200 HP shots for several years, but it doesnt mean that I didnt need it.. it means I was lucky. If you can afford one there is no reason not to use it. I have blown an intake completely off of a car at 2000 RPM from intake detonation due to insufficient air speed... Then again, this was in a 5.0 with a much larger intake cross section area than a stock 4.6. That doesnt mean that you cant spray a stock 4.6 at such a low RPM, it means that it is risky to do.

As far as tagging the rev limiter on spray, and using stock gapped PLATINUM spark plugs on juice.. I have no idea what so ever how anyone ever got that to work. For reference, what do the spark plugs look like after something like that? What color are they? where are the timing marks at? As I said.. how anyone can get an engine to survive that is beyond my comprehension unless your nitrous system isnt working real well.

Im not saying you guys are full of it, but basicly everything that you guys can get to work is almost unheard of in the nitrous world, so I would like to know what you are doing that no one else is. Check out the nitrous sections on www.corral.net, www.ls1tech.com, or www.nitrousforums.com and see if you can find ANYONE else claiming to get away with tuning that risky... you guys have me stumped.

I choose not to have you stumped.

You said you need a Window switch. I said I don't use one and never have. That is a fact. WHEREVER the TPS allows it to spray is where mine comes in. Period. Always has been. I didn't say it was 600, 1000 or whatever.

The second point is mine was dynoed by Jerry W and the converter was locked, then slammed at which time the nitrous came on hence the impending numbers. If you don't believe that then find out from him yourself.

Thirdly, I never said anything about the limiter and for your information I have NO limiters!!!! Can't hit one if I don't have one.

Fourthly, my engine is not indestructible nor is it bullit proof. Its a stock engine albeit PI heads/Cam etc on this one, as the other one was Completely stock.

I don't question your expertise on the other systems cause I basically know nothing about them and since I'm not utilizing them it really makes no difference. Nor do I question your results with the race teams, customers cars etc.

One thing I can rest assure you though, there have been plenty of NMRA Modular motor cars see this 1MTNCAT NMRA MM7030 Cougar line up over the years, drive in, run what you brung, and load up the drag tires and left with an understanding from some of the other competitors. How many of those cars do that?

I'm not braggin, its facts! It might let loose one day, but how many of the cars have you worked on that hasn't? And I still drive mine 5-8K a year or more with all the toys and full interior.

BTW, I also run Bosch +4 Platinums and have been for years. All I'm saying is don't say it can't be done.
 

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Supernatural said:
thats almost a 125 hp nitrous jet, with enough fuel for a 200 shot, so probably 80 HP as rich as it is jetted if this is a NOS style dry kit.

the ZEX dry kit doesnt use fuel pressure jets last I checked though. if you are talking about a wet kit, which I assume you are based on the jet sizes, its probably 130 at the flywheel.
ACTUALLY IT DOES USE FUEL JETS,BUTT NOT TO CONTROL FUEL FOR A WET KIT BUT TO CONTROL THE VACUM/PRESSURE THAT IS EXERTED ON THE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATER I/E IT RAMPS UP THE FUEL PRESSURE QUICKLY.YOU SHOULD DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH AND YOU WILL SEE THAT IT IS NOT A BAD SET UP AND IT IS FOOL PROOF
MIKE
 

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Well, I am going to find out this summer how well a basically stock motor holds up to a 75shot from a ZEX dry kit. Am gonna increase the MAF and the TB, new fuel pump, injectors and a tune from Dave Dalke. Car has TRAC with 3:55, rebuilt, upgraded tranny, shift kit and will be on drag radials. If this doesnt blow it up, I will be very impressed. Hell, might even make it into the low 15's!!!!!!
 

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joker77_2005 said:
ACTUALLY IT DOES USE FUEL JETS,BUTT NOT TO CONTROL FUEL FOR A WET KIT BUT TO CONTROL THE VACUM/PRESSURE THAT IS EXERTED ON THE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATER I/E IT RAMPS UP THE FUEL PRESSURE QUICKLY.YOU SHOULD DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH AND YOU WILL SEE THAT IT IS NOT A BAD SET UP AND IT IS FOOL PROOF
MIKE
**Edited** nevermind, Im not going to even waste the time...
 

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yes please dont waste ur time or ours
their are people on this board that have been useing the zex dry system for 8-10 years and have been running the higher up shots with no problems
here is me in the red bird running a 100 shot off the line and jason in the white sc beside me is running a dry shot too
http://chapters.tccoa.com/va/Summer Blast 5/Race Day/Mike vs Jason.mpg
mine hasnt blown up yet so i guess zex must be doing something right
mike
 

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joker77_2005 said:
yes please dont waste ur time or ours
their are people on this board that have been useing the zex dry system for 8-10 years and have been running the higher up shots with no problems
here is me in the red bird running a 100 shot off the line and jason in the white sc beside me is running a dry shot too
http://chapters.tccoa.com/va/Summer Blast 5/Race Day/Mike vs Jason.mpg
mine hasnt blown up yet so i guess zex must be doing something right
mike

ehh.. to each their own. Im not going to argue my point. I havent ever said zex kits will blow your motor up, and this isnt the place or the time to get into that pissing match.

I just want to help if I can, but im going to refuse to get into arguments over silly stuff. The important thing is that we all use and enjoy nitrous oxide.
 

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Supernatural, who are you??
i for one understand what your saying, and agree with it. i have a compucar wet kit, on the small side (90hp) i have everything i should have except a window switch. I do however have a wot switch and a button, both need to be pushed in order for any n2o to activate. its not the best i know this, but it does keep it from activating early as long as i dont hit the button under 3k. it doesnt however keep it from spraying at the limiter, i have my limiter set at 6200 and shift points at 5500 so there are a few rpms to play with. and dont forget these are all auto cars so no need for miss shifted 5speeds.

i just havent found the item i need for n2o activation. what would you recommend for a n2o auto car with a trans brake. i want something that lets off the brake and activates the n2o at the same time. i think.
 

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With a dry kit, you have to trick your computer to provide more fuel when the spray is on right?

Those of you running dry kits, how are you accomplishing this? I have heard spraying in front of the MAF will do it, but is a crappy way of doing it, cuz it is too far from the intake. What do you guys think about this?
 

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With a dry kit, you have to trick your computer to provide more fuel when the spray is on right?

Those of you running dry kits, how are you accomplishing this? I have heard spraying in front of the MAF will do it, but is a crappy way of doing it, cuz it is too far from the intake. What do you guys think about this?
I don't know where you got that information or what kit but, that is an incorrect statement. You aren t tricking anything!!! There is a jet in the fuel line to regulator hose on mine that ups the pressure when the system is acitivated.

I spray within 6 inches of the TB as was suggested on the installation sheet 8 or more years ago with this system.

There is no trickery involved.

Good luck in your modding.
 

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1MTNCAT, notice the question mark at the end of my first sentence? That makes it a question, not statement. Also, I read that "statement" in Sean Hyland Motorsport's "How to Build Max-Performance 4.6 Engines." He says- "In '99 Ford changed the mustang to a returnless fuel system, and the nitrous kit manufacturers had to come up with another way of tricking the computer into supplying additional fuel."

So your car must not have a returnless fuel system, correct? Not all Dry kits are the same.

I realize that within 6" of throttle body is best, but the question was, can you get away with spraying infront of the MAF sensor? I have read in MM&FF magazine, of a homemade N2O setup using this technique, and bigger injectors (24 lb. w/out a re-calibrated MAF), to create a Very Cheap setup.
 

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i take everything ever stated by SHM and toss it in the trash. thats the only place his BS belongs in the garbage.
 

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With a dry kit, you have to trick your computer to provide more fuel when the spray is on right?

Those of you running dry kits, how are you accomplishing this? I have heard spraying in front of the MAF will do it, but is a crappy way of doing it, cuz it is too far from the intake. What do you guys think about this?
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Obviously that was a question and obviously you aren't good in reading comprehension.

Note my response in the previous post, I don't trick anything so what would the answer to that question be??? If you read further the rest of the next question in your initial inquiry has a response in there as well.





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1MTNCAT, notice the question mark at the end of my first sentence? That makes it a question, not statement. Also, I read that "statement" in Sean Hyland Motorsport's "How to Build Max-Performance 4.6 Engines." He says- "In '99 Ford changed the mustang to a returnless fuel system, and the nitrous kit manufacturers had to come up with another way of tricking the computer into supplying additional fuel."

So your car must not have a returnless fuel system, correct? Not all Dry kits are the same.

I realize that within 6" of throttle body is best, but the question was, can you get away with spraying infront of the MAF sensor? I have read in MM&FF magazine, of a homemade N2O setup using this technique, and bigger injectors (24 lb. w/out a re-calibrated MAF), to create a Very Cheap setup.
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1. If you want an expert response then I suggest you get hold of SHM.

2. Very true, all nitrous systems are not the same.

3. To answer your latest question, my car has a return type fuel system on it just like yours and all the rest of the stangs and birds up through 1998.

4. I suppose you can spray the nitrous anywhere you want but it will be much better utilized in close proximity of the intake air charge at the TB, not 2-3 feet forward at the MAF. But, to insure you are correct, again, get hold of SHM.
 
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