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My Second Mod: Suspension Rebuild

77K views 633 replies 30 participants last post by  Zep5.0 
#1 · (Edited)
After I got my T-Bird running last week, I noticed that there was a rattling coming from the front. I was told to lift the front, grab the wheels at 12 and 6 o'clock and shake it to see if it moved / wiggled. The fronts were fine so I moved to the rear. Upon doing the same for the rear driver, it moved and likewise for the passenger rear. This obviously means that I have failed rear hubs which will need replacement. This being a safety issue, I've decided to go ahead and start rebuilding the suspension over the transmission. The transmission just leaks but shifts fine otherwise and I have to add some ATF to it every so often which I can live with for the time being.

All this being said, I've begun doing some searching here in the suspension section of the forum and have found a ton of info. Posting on the FB TCCoA group, I was told by Woodman (Durwood) to go ahead and do all the knuckle bushings since I'll already be there anyways. He's even provided me the link to Energy Suspension for the correct bushings. They're inexpensive, so I'll definitely be doing this. The video I found (below) on YouTube pretty much spells out how to do the job, minus how to put the new hubs on, this job seems to be something I can do in an afternoon. This post by jco1385 (pictures in the quote) makes it seem that I can do press the hubs in myself provided I have the right tools.

Lovely Chinese wheel bearings....
Now that I've mentioned this, I will have to say that the suspension will most definitely take me a long time to get it to where I want it to be at. The rear hubs being replaced is basically my starting point on all this. I'm going to be doing more reading and research on the matter, and of course asking here as questions from me come along.

As far as parts go, I've heard from several people and read in a few threads already that Timken is the way to go in terms of hubs. There has been one person mention a brand called SKF for hubs. Any thoughts on Timken vs SKF?

 
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#2 ·
Unless you have a hydraulic press, and a 20lb one at that, you're not going to be pressing the old hubs out, new hubs in.

Getting the spindle off is really easy. It's the hub being pressed in that's a pain in the butt. I'm having enough trouble with my rear upper control arm bushings that I've said forget it, I'm taking the arms to a shop to have them done because over the last two weekends I've made zero progress getting the bushing race out.
 
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#3 ·
I second the press statement. You're much less likely to damage your knuckle, which let me remind you is made of Aluminum by using one. I personally use ford racing bearings all day every day for a cobra. They are super cheap, and work great. Timken is my brand of choice...napa sells SKF bearings and seals, which are good quality; but I stick to my ford racing parts, they are trouble free and work right the first time.

Ford Racing Mustang Rear Hub Bearing - IRS M-1215-A (99-04 Cobra) - Free Shipping

If you get a promo code you can get like 6% off, which helps and shipping is always free.
 
#4 ·
Those are Timken SET49 bearings; they're used in a lot of cars going way back.

$25 at Rock Auto.

You won't convince me Ford is better than Timken, as they were and likely are the oem. :)
 
#5 ·
Timken parts it is! The Ford Racing ones, while I'm sure they're very qood quality, the wife won't like the cost. If people are swearing by Timken, then I trust you guys on this. I'll place my orders for parts tonight and I'll start looking for a shop in my area that can press in / out the hubs.

I still need to buy the locking nut and the 36mm socket (it's 36mm, right?) And I'll be able to work on her this weekend hopefully.
 
#6 ·
Yes, 36mm. None of the hardware stores by me had one, but the auto parts stores have them for about $25. I just put Timkin front hub/bearing assemblies in mine, they seem good.
 
#7 ·
Cool. I'll check out the Sears by my work to see if they have a 36mm socket. I'll also see if the parts store has one they can rent out. Since it's going to pretty much be a one time use tool, I'd rather not have to buy it if possible. If none is available for sale at a brick and mortar store, I'll go online, Amazon most likely.
 
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#9 ·
After I got my T-Bird running last week, I noticed that there was a rattling coming from the front.
Front rattling is either a bad balljoint, bad swaybar link/bushing, or a loose UCA bolt - in my experience.

This post by jco1385 (pictures in the quote) makes it seem that I can do press the hubs in myself provided I have the right tools.
That post shows the hub being pushed OUT of the bearing, not the opposite. The race staying on the hub is not normal with OEM bearings. You will need a shop press for the rest of the hub/bearing procedure.

Unless you have a hydraulic press, and a 20lb one at that, you're not going to be pressing the old hubs out, new hubs in.

Getting the spindle off is really easy. It's the hub being pressed in that's a pain in the butt. I'm having enough trouble with my rear upper control arm bushings that I've said forget it, I'm taking the arms to a shop to have them done because over the last two weekends I've made zero progress getting the bushing race out.
20 lb press is a little small for the job ;)

On the rear UCA/frame bushing, mark the notch and just cave the casing in with a hammer/chisel and remove it. Be sure to support the sides when you install the new one as to not crush the arm in on itself.

The knuckle bushings can be pushed out/in with a piece of all-thread and some washers/spacers and a cup that will fit over them.

Umm ford bearings are Timken bearings...I just get ford ones because most distributors sell defective ones or something from a different manufacturer.
Agreed ^. Get the Timken SET49 bearings and have them pressed in correctly (on the outer race).

FWIW, I have an extra set of disc knuckles here and all of the proper tools to swap bushings/hubs/bearings/etc if you wanted to have it done. PM me if you're interested and we can discuss it. I just swapped all of my rear bushings and bearings this weekend.








 
#10 ·
Front rattling is either a bad balljoint, bad swaybar link/bushing, or a loose UCA bolt - in my experience.
I didn't say this in my OP, but I should have though; my suspension is pretty much original to the car, all 177k miles of the body are also on the suspension. That said, just about every suspension component is basically shot yet somehow is able to stay together. Since I know my suspension is shot, I plan on rebuilding my suspension and upgrade where possible which basically lead me start this thread.

Most people were telling me originally that the hubs are bad if there is a rattling noise. My experiences with bad sway bar links and bushings have not been rattling, but rather "clunking" noises. However, that experience has been in my Honda, so the experience in this platform may of course be completely different as you have pointed out.

That post shows the hub being pushed OUT of the bearing, not the opposite. The race staying on the hub is not normal with OEM bearings. You will need a shop press for the rest of the hub/bearing procedure.

20 lb press is a little small for the job ;)
I've started to look for a shop in my area locally and have been recommended to one already. I'll check them out and continue to look around for the best price.


On the rear UCA/frame bushing, mark the notch and just cave the casing in with a hammer/chisel and remove it. Be sure to support the sides when you install the new one as to not crush the arm in on itself.

The knuckle bushings can be pushed out/in with a piece of all-thread and some washers/spacers and a cup that will fit over them.
So basically, destroy / deform the old bushings so that I can just pull them out, but gently slide in the new ones?


Agreed ^. Get the Timken SET49 bearings and have them pressed in correctly (on the outer race).

FWIW, I have an extra set of disc knuckles here and all of the proper tools to swap bushings/hubs/bearings/etc if you wanted to have it done. PM me if you're interested and we can discuss it. I just swapped all of my rear bushings and bearings this weekend.








You found me on Facebook! LOL
 
#11 ·
Timken SET49 hub/bearings ordered as well as the ES poly bushings!

This is officially on its way to getting done!!
 
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#12 ·
Word to the wise:

Always slightly separate the inner races, and look to see "is grease is actually in there".

These days, that QC step is weight driven; So actually look. :)

I've found them in the past that were dry, but none of the ones I got from RA were; all had lube.

But check!

If they're dry, use Timken bearing grease; it's easy on the seals.
 
#13 ·
Here's a question for everyone:

What should I tackle next? Like I've said before, my entire suspension is shot. I WANT to do springs and struts / shocks next, but what I want are Vogtland springs paird with Tokico Blues, but that will run me $650ish or so, which I can't do quite yet.

So, I'm starting to think that maybe I can piece together over my next few weeks and months start getting front UCAs, front UCAs, end / sway bar links (front and rear), do a junk yard run for MK8 rear LCAs, SCP spring perches, and stabilizer bar bushings. Then save my pennies for the springs and struts / shocks at the very end.

I'm just worried that the springs and struts will be discontinued by the time I get to them if I do them at the end, lol.

Also, I'm sure that I missed a few components up there in my list.



I guess I won't be able to find out until I actually get them in, but I can ask for now. How are they "slightly separated" to find out if they are lubed up or not?
 
#15 ·
Rattling, clunking, whatever you want to call it has always been sway bar end links for me. Doesn't matter if it's front or rear.

Pulling to one side when braking, or creaking when going over a speed bump is lower control arms (ball joints).

Since you have to remove a good bit of the front suspension to do shocks/springs, I would wait to do it all at once, except for sway bar end links, which are easy.

Hope you have air tools! Good luck with it.

Al
 
#18 ·
Good info, guys!!

Here are good pix of the front strut rod and its bushings; there are good and bad examples, it's a great thread. :)

http://forums.tccoa.com/44-suspension/99795-how-about-official-suspension-parts-list-thread.html



As far as the heavy metal goes:

You want these UCA and LCA's:

ACDELCO 45D1002 {#88911465} Professional $57.79
Front Right Upper


ACDELCO 45D1001 {#88911464} Professional $58.99
Front Left Upper

ACDELCO 45D3464 {#19264307} Professional $59.79
Front Left Lower; w/o Auto Adjusting Suspension


ACDELCO 45D3465 {#19264308} Professional $59.79
Front Right Lower; w/o Auto Adjusting Suspension



You want these Swaybar endlinks: (you need two)

ACDELCO 45G0102 {#88912252} Professional $37.79
Front; Link With Sockets


Raybestos higher grade parts are now ACDelco; there are some pix of the two side by side here somewhere.

These are way better than even the motorcraft ones I bought for Lazarus.

This is what I did to Lazarus' rear suspension:

http://forums.tccoa.com/44-suspension/68894-new-polyurethane-rear-control-arm-bushings.html


I'm still not totally sure about the whole setup; it's stiff as ****!!!

I think "DAMN!!" I'm good with, "****!" is a bit much. :)

The sport springs are wrong for it; I've pulled so much stuff out of the car it's too light for them in the rear for sure.

Maybe it's the Koni's; I think I'll swap them to the Tbird for a while and see.

The Tbird has the Tokico Blues, bought with springs in a kit; I'm not sure who made the springs, but they are light purple, and variable rate, unlike the Ford springs.
 
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#19 ·
jco,

I'm going to have to agree with you now more than my co-worker, lol. I'll get started on the UCAs and LCAs starting on the front end before moving to the rear.



Grog, you are awesome! Those threads I've glanced at, but I'll have to take the time to read them through. I'll have to probably do it form my phone though as many pictures are blocked for me here at work. I'll just have to post (if necessary) from work as I read them through on my phone, LOL.

Anyways, since starting this, I've been thinking of what parts to buy and there was a thread a few days ago where Woodman posted exactly what you just said about ACDelco now being Raybestos. I've decided to go with the ACDelco stuff since it just looks to be much better quality than anything else. One check at a time, I guess.

I imagine that after I complete one piece of my suspension rebuild, I'll have to take her in to a shop for an alignment, right? Or, what parts don't and do need alignment?
 
#21 ·
Minor thread hijack in progress...

On the subject of suspension, over the last two weeks I've...

Replaced both front hubs, both inner and outer tie rods, and put new brake pads up front because the previous owner didn't grind the caliper/spindle for the PBR swap, and the pads were worn at a distinct angle. I am putting 13" cobra brakes on next month, so these will hold till I do that.

Onto the rear end...

New knuckle bushings (energy suspension poly, all well lubed with the very heavy grease they supply, so far, no squeaking). Pretty easy getting them out with the rent a tool bushing press.

New rear upper control arm to frame bushings.
Those were a NIGHTMARE. Getting the arms out was cake. Hardest part was loosening the bolt. But pushing the bearing was way too much for the auto parts store bushing press. So I took the arms to my alignment shop (who quoted me $600 to do just one side's worth of tie rods and bushings) who pushed them both for $40 since they were out of the car. Now she just needs to get aligned, and she'll be road worthy.
 
#22 ·
...New rear upper control arm to frame bushings.
Those were a NIGHTMARE. ... But pushing the bearing was way too much for the auto parts store bushing press.
There's an easy way to get these out; I've posted about it before. :)

Look how it's installed, the new one needs to go in the same; it's an eccentric cam alignment feature.

You take a hammer and chisel, or an air hammer, and put three rows of dents, equally spaced around the circumference, down the side of the bushing. It makes it smaller, and loose.

It will just fall out at some point, if you use an air hammer. :)

One of my OG mechanic buddies showed me that, after laughing at me for a bit. He's 80ish...

Going back in, you have to support the sides to prevent the press collapsing them; I use two 1/2" pieces I made out of aluminum with a 4" cutoff tool. :)
One on each side of the bushing, and press back into place.
 
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#26 ·
These are the correct AC Delco Bushings.
More Information for ACDELCO 45G11001

Yes, the auto parts store one wasn't very good. Didn't have the right sized press cup to push the old one out. Next time I'll just hammer it out. Pushing one in is MUCH simpler than getting the old one out with a press.

As far as the inner tie rods go, they're cheap enough for genuine Motocraft ones that I just do the inners/outers together. You know it's bad if it has any inner/outer motion (it's just a ball joint essentially).

Outer:
More Information for MOTORCRAFT MES3004

Inner:
More Information for MOTORCRAFT MEOE36

The hardest part is getting the new inners started because they are VERY stiff, so getting the rod out of the way so you can thread it onto the mount is tricky. If you have the inner tie rod tool it's a little simpler, but the auto parts store didn't have it available the day I did it, so I just used a big crescent wrench. Came off with a little bit of force, make sure the car is high enough in the air to lay comfortably under it, and eye protection is good because you're going to knock a lot of dirt in your face.

Should realistically take you longer to get the car on stands than to loosen up the inners. The outers aren't a problem either, but count how many full rotations it takes to unscrew the old outer to get it close to the right alignment. You will still need the alignment, but to have it pretty close to where it was should help.

All told, took my friend and I about two hours to get the car in the air, change the front hubs, unbolt the castle nuts on the outer tie rod, smack one side with a hammer for 10 minutes to loosen it up enough to drop out, unscrew (and count) it, then wrestle with the inner tie rod ends to get them loose, then put it all back together with new parts.

Took about an hour to get the rear upper control arms loose, support the rear lower control arm with a jack (with the car on jack stands preferably) and once the knuckle is unbolted, use your press to get the old knuckle bushing out and replace it. Use the lube Energy Suspension sends with it to keep it squeal free. Then the hardest part of getting the upper control arm out is loosening up the bolt, 18mm and 15mm wrenches, or if you have one an air impact to loosen it up. It's tight, and likely to be rusted if you live in a rusty area. I got lucky, my car is from Kansas, and I don't drive it in the snow, so mine came right out.

Regarding the toe links, if your rear lower control arm to IRS bushings are worn out, you'll just ruin the new toe links in short order. So if you plan on replacing them at the same time, go for it. Mine are in good shape, so I left them alone.
 
#27 · (Edited)
My bushings arrived on Tuesday, I've had the bearings already for about two weeks. This weekend though seems a bit tough in terms of time to do the work as things have already been planned out, so it'll likely have to wait for next weekend. It's best that way anyways though since it'll be my flex weekend (I have a 9/80 schedule) and I can take my hardware in during the week to have the bearings pressed out / in.



As far as the inner tie rods go, they're cheap enough for genuine Motocraft ones that I just do the inners/outers together. You know it's bad if it has any inner/outer motion (it's just a ball joint essentially).

Outer:
More Information for MOTORCRAFT MES3004

Inner:
More Information for MOTORCRAFT MEOE36

The hardest part is getting the new inners started because they are VERY stiff, so getting the rod out of the way so you can thread it onto the mount is tricky. If you have the inner tie rod tool it's a little simpler, but the auto parts store didn't have it available the day I did it, so I just used a big crescent wrench. Came off with a little bit of force, make sure the car is high enough in the air to lay comfortably under it, and eye protection is good because you're going to knock a lot of dirt in your face.

Should realistically take you longer to get the car on stands than to loosen up the inners. The outers aren't a problem either, but count how many full rotations it takes to unscrew the old outer to get it close to the right alignment. You will still need the alignment, but to have it pretty close to where it was should help.

All told, took my friend and I about two hours to get the car in the air, change the front hubs, unbolt the castle nuts on the outer tie rod, smack one side with a hammer for 10 minutes to loosen it up enough to drop out, unscrew (and count) it, then wrestle with the inner tie rod ends to get them loose, then put it all back together with new parts.
Thanks for this info. If it's cheap insurance to get this part done as well while I'm taking everything else apart, I might as well add this to my "to-do" list of everything else I'm replacing as well.

Took about an hour to get the rear upper control arms loose, support the rear lower control arm with a jack (with the car on jack stands preferably) and once the knuckle is unbolted, use your press to get the old knuckle bushing out and replace it. Use the lube Energy Suspension sends with it to keep it squeal free. Then the hardest part of getting the upper control arm out is loosening up the bolt, 18mm and 15mm wrenches, or if you have one an air impact to loosen it up. It's tight, and likely to be rusted if you live in a rusty area. I got lucky, my car is from Kansas, and I don't drive it in the snow, so mine came right out.

Regarding the toe links, if your rear lower control arm to IRS bushings are worn out, you'll just ruin the new toe links in short order. So if you plan on replacing them at the same time, go for it. Mine are in good shape, so I left them alone.
Awesome information on the process. I've also been speaking with jco via FB PM and he's also given me some info on this tool he's made that I can easily replicate as well to get the bushings out / in. I might just try both ways on getting the bushings out / in and use whatever works fastest or easiest for me when the time comes.
 
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#29 ·
So I know that I have transmission issues and all right now, and that those should be my priority right now in terms of getting Pearl back on the road, but Carlos (RaceBronco2) had a REALLY good deal on a set of MK8 LCAs that I couldn't pass up. $90 later, and they're on their way!

Just thought I'd update the thread with that. :)
 
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#31 ·
Thread update.

I managed to snag up an MK8 driveshaft about a month ago for my transmission rebuild. Pearl is still down and out though. However, I've decided to move back to the suspension instead of the transmission after seeing several members of the TCCoA FB group have the syndrome called "Sudden Extreme Camber", lol. That made me think that it'll be pointless for me to have the transmission rebuilt if I can't safely get Pearl to the transmission shop. That said, I've purchased a few more suspension related things yesterday as a birthday gift to myself. :)

I snagged up the front ACDelco UCAs and LCAs from RockAuto yesterday. My list of suspension parts currently includes:

  • MK8 Rear LCAs
  • Rear knuckle poly bushings
  • Rear hubs
  • Front LCAs
  • Front UCAs

Aside from the springs and struts / shocks, Voglands 1.6in drop and Tokico Blues is what I plan on getting, the list of items I need still as far as I'm aware of are:

Front:
  • End Links
  • Sway bar bushings
  • Inner tie rod
  • Outer tie rod
  • Spring mount (the ones at the top of the spring)

Rear
  • MK8 Spring perches
  • Toe comensators
  • Sway bar bushings
  • End links
  • LCA bushings (the ones with the inner swivel thing)

Other things I'd be interested in getting are:
  • ADCCO sway bars
  • Front strut bar
  • Front hubs

Is there anything else that I'd need to get that is missing on my list of parts? I want the ADCCO sway bars, but installing the front bar requires dropping the subframe or raising the engine, which I don't think I have the tools or resources to do myself. The things like the bump stops I imagine are included with the shocks / struts, so I shouldn't have to worry about those, right? If not, I'll have to buy those separately.
 
#34 ·
I believe he was calling you out on listing them as lowers instead of uppers. The position on those is upper inner rear control arm.
 
#35 ·
LCA bushings (the ones with the inner swivel thing)
I was trying to be helpful..

I wasn't sure what thingamajigger you were referring to..So I posted a picture of the bushing in question..

Did I Spell "Thingamajigger" right???

:tongue:






Rayo..
 
#36 · (Edited)
On my birthday, I updated my thread that I had ordered the LCAs and UCAs. The LCAs and passenenger side UCA were perfect, the driver side UCA however, has not. For those of you not on the TCCoA FB page, my story has been that I've ordered the driver side UCA now 4 times between RockAuto and Amazon. The vendors have no issue with the product as they're the ones who just pick out what the box says that the item inside is and trust that the manufacturer placed the correct product to correspond with the label. This issue falls solely on ACDelco. Between some searching and feedback on the FB page, it seems that this is a common issue with ACDelco, and that's unfortunate.

Original order



Most recent (4th order) replacement on the left.



In other news though, I've ordered the 1.6" Vogtland springs with SCP and I should have them by the 6th.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I decided to make a detailed parts list of what all I need and have purchased for this suspension venture because I was starting to forget some things and blurring some parts with other parts. I think I have everything in my list, but I ask the veterans of our MN12 platform though, is there anything I'm missing in my parts list?



Also, now that I'm putting this down, this project is becoming more expensive than I originally thought! I had been planning for $1,500 but now that I've put down all the nickles and dimes together, it'll be closer to $2,400!! You guys weren't kidding when saying, "double or triple your budget on a project". This still isn't including my costs on any tools I may need such as the 18mm ratcheting wrench.
 
#38 · (Edited)
That pricing is why I tended to do the front, then the rear. :)

18mm ratcheting wrench is essential to the front.

You want a skinny one, preferably one with fine clicks and has to be turned over for the other direction.

The rear is more diverse; a 35mm hits the hubs, a 24mm hits some of the suspension rear bolts, but I think the big one is a 1 3/16", because it ain't metric or sae, lol.

I think I end up using a 13/16" in some places as well. :)


I didn't see the "Toe corrector" on your list; they are bolted to the rear LCA, and are the low-deflection point in your rear suspension.
Lol, RA calls them "Alignment tools."

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/....6l+v8,1198795,suspension,alignment+tool,7692

These work well; I'm using them currently.






Matt, could you straighten us out on these sizes? :smile2:
 
#39 ·
Thread resurrection / update.....kinda sorta.

Like any other project, this one takes money. Life has happened and money has been tight and prioritiezed elsewhere for the last year and a half. I can't believe it's been that long, but the car has been sitting for that long. About half that time out in the elements as my garage has been occupied by other projects to make the wife happy. The car does still start and run, but it still sits because of the suspension and transmission.

Long story short, I'm now in a position to start buying parts again and I plan on start buying parts here in a month or so. I will start with the rear Bilstein shocks. Depending on availability, I'll get Tokico Blues up front still, but I'm now heavily interested in doing the Bilstein insert mod up front to have the same level of suspension performance on all four corners. We'll see how that goes when the time comes, but I'm thinking of it now.

Oh! And I managed to score a 3rd pedal and a slave (?) cable since my last post here!
 
#41 ·
Thanks TM!

I'm kind of torn as to what to get next. I want to get the rear Bilsteins, but as we all know some parts are becoming unobtanium, I'm also interested in getting the front strut rod bushings. The thing is that the rear Bilsteins is the last thing I need to tear down the rear end of the car and get that part done. Looking at TBSCshop as the only known supplier of these bushings, I'm not sure if the bushing kit they offer for $170 is for both sides or only one side. I get the impression that it's both sides, but I'm not really sure. I'll contact them and see what they say about that.
 
#42 ·
1) Take a look at the thread I created that recapped all the front options. DON'T do the bilstein circle track inserts like how Paul did it; the generic insert is TINY compared to the inserts designed for the Mitsubishi 3000GT. It's more work (you'll need a lathe) but it's entirely doable.
https://forums.tccoa.com/44-suspens...sion-options-summary-bilstein-insert-diy.html

2) Rears Bilsteins are still obtainable. Ford made plenty of Cobras and the Mustang mafia still hasn't killed every SN95 Cobra just yet (not enough C&C events).

-g
 
#43 ·
1) Take a look at the thread I created that recapped all the front options. DON'T do the bilstein circle track inserts like how Paul did it; the generic insert is TINY compared to the inserts designed for the Mitsubishi 3000GT. It's more work (you'll need a lathe) but it's entirely doable.
https://forums.tccoa.com/44-suspens...sion-options-summary-bilstein-insert-diy.html

2) Rears Bilsteins are still obtainable. Ford made plenty of Cobras and the Mustang mafia still hasn't killed every SN95 Cobra just yet (not enough C&C events).

-g
1. Unless someone makes the insert for me so that I can just assemble it in my garage, then I'm back to Tokicos. I don't have special tools like a lathe or welder.

2. I'm aware :).
 
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