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Discussion Starter #241
Would the easiest way to test this be to bring in both the MN12 strut and LCA to see if they'll work interchangeably?

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Discussion Starter #243
Hasn't that been discussed elsewhere with the consensus being that they are in fact struts?

/ Bait taken

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If your local O'Reilly or Advance Auto are cool they may order on in for you to check side by side. Would be interesting to see for sure. You could then get a general feel for the resistance in rebound up or down. Get everyone to pitch in $5 and you could try a set for us all 😆. I'd pony up some cash for science and stuff!
 

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Shock has one pivot point, and a strut is an integral structure of the frame.

Ours are coilover shocks; the front suspension doesn't come apart if you remove the shock, nor does it change the alignment.

If you have to realign it if you change it, it's a strut.
 

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Hasn't that been discussed elsewhere with the consensus being that they are in fact struts?

/ Bait taken

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Maybe, but I don’t frequent places elsewhere with poor tech discussion :tongue:

A strut is a crucial part of the suspension geometry, directly substituting the role of an upper ball joint and control arm, it’s called a strut for this very reason as it’s what keeps the wheel stabilized through travel. Shocks are independent of geometry, the UCA and LCAs keep the wheel in perfect geometry through travel even with the shock and spring entirely removed.

Fox and SN95 Mustangs use front struts, as do classic Porsche 911s, yet do not use coilover springs around them. The spring doesn’t define it, it was just the way Earle S. MacPherson originally packaged them together.
 

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Would the easiest way to test this be to bring in both the MN12 strut and LCA to see if they'll work interchangeably?

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If you don't have an extra LCA laying around, that's another part you can order from your local autozone shop (they should stock it in their local warehouse) and do a comparison with the fork of the Supra shock.

If it fits, I see the next biggest issue would be if there enough resistance from the stock Supra spring before the SHOCK bottoms out. You may need to order a different spring. The rear Supra vs front Tbird seems close enough spring rate wise that it might work.


You will likely need to swap the shock top from the supra one to the stock tbird one.

Short of an install and (an abusive) test drive (like at a track/autocross), I fail to see how you would be able to test if there's enough shock travel. Short of something like a shock dyno (and someone to help interpret the data from both shocks), this is an experiment that requires real world testing beyond the ("will it fit" initial look at the parts store).
https://fortune-auto.com/shock-dyno-basics/
 

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Mikey said somewhere that the shock will allow the tire to hit the fenderwell on a hard hit; I've never bottomed one that hard, even hitting curbs. :)

I don't think an inch will kill anything, for a street car.
 

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Mikey said somewhere that the shock will allow the tire to hit the fenderwell on a hard hit; I've never bottomed one that hard, even hitting curbs. :)

I don't think an inch will kill anything, for a street car.
So if you took a pair of the shocks, mounted them without springs, and let the car down on the tire until the inner fender landed on the tire, that'd be enough travel that way it sounds like (especially if there was still some travel left.)

That'd be easy enough to test ...

All it would take is a spare upper shock mount.

Edit: And some modeling clay on the top of the tire, in case it DIDN'T land so you could tell how much it was shy at the tire.

RwP
 

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Discussion Starter #250
If you don't have an extra LCA laying around, that's another part you can order from your local autozone shop (they should stock it in their local warehouse) and do a comparison with the fork of the Supra shock.

If it fits, I see the next biggest issue would be if there enough resistance from the stock Supra spring before the SHOCK bottoms out. You may need to order a different spring. The rear Supra vs front Tbird seems close enough spring rate wise that it might work.


You will likely need to swap the shock top from the supra one to the stock tbird one.

Short of an install and (an abusive) test drive (like at a track/autocross), I fail to see how you would be able to test if there's enough shock travel. Short of something like a shock dyno (and someone to help interpret the data from both shocks), this is an experiment that requires real world testing beyond the ("will it fit" initial look at the parts store).
https://fortune-auto.com/shock-dyno-basics/
But I do have an extra LCA laying around! I just have to dig it out of the box I stuffed it in.... I'm thinking I'll be doing that this weekend if time allows (lots going on).

As for the shock v spring thing, I hope that the Vogtland fronts fit. Otherwise, I'll have to order a set of front Lexus SC300 / Toyota Supra front springs and I really don't want to do that.

I think I'll just have to grab a front spring, LCA, and strut mount and get it all loosely assembled at the parts store to see if it'll fit.
 

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I suspect the Vogtland springs won’t fit, but would be a huge bonus if they do. They look like a narrower diameter and there’s a good possibility the perch is in a different place requiring a different height spring.

There may be a possibility of cutting the welds off the stock perch and slipping it over the
Toyota shock bodies if they’re similar diameters though. They only need a lip to rest on.
 

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Discussion Starter #252
Guess I need to measure the diameter of our strut :D :tongue: perch and compare those measurements to the SC300 / Supra units.
 

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:facepalm:

You kids... :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #255
Got around to bringing my stuff down from the garage for this weekend and started to take measurements. Yes, there is only abi 3-3/8" of travel for the stock MN12 shock. The total length of piston is 4-1/2", but with a bump stop of 1-1/8", the total allotted piston travel ends up being the 3-3/8".

Not sure if I got something wrong here (LCA), or if the shock is damaged at the lower mount point, or if this is how it's supposed to be, but is this gap supposed to be normal? I thought it would have been flush with the bushing on the LCA. Basically, there's a 1/3" gap between the forks and the bushing.













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Discussion Starter #256
So I just pulled down the other shock to compare the two, and the first one is indeed damaged at the fork. The gao between its fork and the LCA bushing is much narrower, maybe 1/8"? I don't have my boy with me this time around to help me hold the LCA while I measure, lol.





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Interesting that the geometry of the front suspension allows for that short of travel. As for the gap, I'm sure that goes away when bolted in. This is all good info... We may just find a solution yet.
 

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Full travel on the original Konis is listed at 4.25".

I have the drawing DLF made years ago; I think I posted it in this thread somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #259
Full travel on the original Konis is listed at 4.25".



I have the drawing DLF made years ago; I think I posted it in this thread somewhere.
If it's the drawing for the Koni, I have it as well. It's on my PC though.

But yes, that's the full travel I measured without the bump stop.

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