TCCoA Forums banner

261 - 280 of 418 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,408 Posts
Yup. That's it; DLF posted it when we first found out we couldn't get new ones anymore.

I may have bought the very last set from Tire Rack.

He wrote to Koni, and they said they'd only sold one set in the last two years, and I bought one, so... :grin2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #262
Jelly.

I'm jelly of all people who got the last of everything. In fact, one of the guys on the TCCOA FB page said he got one of the last Bilstein inserts and just recently installed them. I'm jelly of him too. lol.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,826 Posts
Jelly.

I'm jelly of all people who got the last of everything. In fact, one of the guys on the TCCOA FB page said he got one of the last Bilstein inserts and just recently installed them. I'm jelly of him too. lol.
What gets me is when they buy them for a project they won’t finish for another ten years. I needed them now! :tongue:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,408 Posts
I bought those, I got the last set of Stock Sport shocks, and the last Complete set of Front strut rod bushings.

:)

When I see stuff going away, I try to pounce on them.

I bought bags of the rear strut rod bushings, and now I notice that you can only get one side now. :(

They came 3 to a bag, which I thought was a bummer at the time; not so much now tho.

I've used the MOOG rear bushings, and they work ok; no complaints.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #265
Went to the only parts store that had the SC300 shock available. It's close, but will need to be fabbed up some. I'll post more details of my findings later. I don't want to do that from my phone.



















Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #266
Side by side, the Lexus SC300 / SC400 shocks are basically identical in uncompressed height (as seen in the last set of pictures). As I write this though, I realized that I didn't fully compress the Lexus shock to see how much more give it had.



This is where the Lexus shock will give us the most problem in terms of fitment. As you can see here, the spring seat is significantly higher than our spring seat (sorry, I forgot to take measurements). It appears to be about a 2-1/4" difference between ours and the Lexus unit. The other part that is concerning here (and I'd have to look at it again to make sure), is that the Lexus unit seems slanted. I believe this is due to them being specifically left / right units for the Lexus whereas our units are left or right. Perhaps cutting off a coil or two would be a potential fix for this as it would give the room needed to set the spring down? Though, I know that would cause a whole different set of issues with spring rates and whatnot.

However, if we find an insert adaptation like we did with the Mitsubishi Bilstein unit that's no longer available, I believe it will work without issue as the Lexus shock is fairly narrower than our unit.





Here, the fork and LCA point are very close. I'd say shaving off about 1/8" of the LCA bushingg where the shock fork meets should do the trick. I did not check the bore hole of the shock's fork, so I'm not sure if the bore is too small, too big, or just right. If too small, the fix would be easy and just make it larger. If too big, adding washers ought to fix the issue.





The spring seat itself seems to be ever so slightly larger than the Vogtland spring. Like, it'll sit there, but it seems to require a small bit of force for it to actually set in there. I'm not sure if just forcing the spring on there during the compression phase of shock / spring / strut mount assembly would do the job or if a small amount of material would need to be shaved off where it makes contact. But shaving off material would - I imagine - be detrimental to the structural rigidity of the spring seat.



Both shocks fully extended. They are essentially identical in length with the Lexus unit being ever so slightly longer, maybe 1/2"? Note the top of the Lexus shock having a wider shaft tip. Perhaps for our application it could be ground down for it to work with our strut mounts. Or perhaps our strut mounts can be modified to work? Like earlier, I did not take measurements of that shaft tip.







I did however, take measurements to the shaft of the shock and piston body. The shock shaft came in at 1-25/32" (appx 1-7/8") diameter. As for the piston body, I got two measurements for it. The first was 31/64" (appox 3/8") and the second was 1/2". The reason for this was because the first measurement I was doing myself while also holding my phone to take a picture and the second was with one of the store sales people doing the measurement while I took the picture.





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
This is interesting because, as the uneducated fool that I am, it's easy for me to think "how the hell could there be no shocks that fit, aren't they all the same?" I guess it should be obvious, but here we can see that they are definitely not all the same.

Still, it's a bit odd to me that somehow the MN12 platform is so unique that nothing else easily adapts. :zdunno:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,826 Posts
Great Reconnaissance! The guy on Instagram that used the coilover kit said he had to enlarge the shock bore a bit to fit the Tbird LCA, so that’s easy enough


The perch is much higher than I thought it would be, the amount of coils you’d need to cut will drastically effect spring rates, we’d probably be better off finding alternative springs or even using regular old V6 LX springs. I wonder if coil bind will be a factor as well.

The top mounting area is interesting, it looks to be a different metal than the actual shock rod, which makes me wonder if it is just threaded on and removable. The bilstiens dont have that but in this sample photo there is a piece to the side that resembles that.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #269 (Edited)
Great Reconnaissance! The guy on Instagram that used the coilover kit said he had to enlarge the shock bore a bit to fit the Tbird LCA, so that’s easy enough


The perch is much higher than I thought it would be, the amount of coils you’d need to cut will drastically effect spring rates, we’d probably be better off finding alternative springs or even using regular old V6 LX springs. I wonder if coil bind will be a factor as well.

The top mounting area is interesting, it looks to be a different metal than the actual shock rod, which makes me wonder if it is just threaded on and removable. The bilstiens dont have that but in this sample photo there is a piece to the side that resembles that.
As I look at the image you just put up, and after yesterday's findings, I've gotten the idea that perhaps we can use this specific unit as an insert. Think about it. The MN12 shock body is nearly 2" in diameter and the Lexus shock is just over 1-3/4" in diameter, so it'll definitely fit.

We now know that the spring perch area on the Lexus unit is a few inches higher than the MN12 spring perch. This Bilstein unit - if it indeed looks like the provided picture - does not have an integrated spring perch to the shock body. This would allow us to not worry about modifying the Lexus' shock body at the spring perch. And because the Lexus spring perch area is at least 2" higher than the MN12 spring perch, we don't have to worry about the lip interfering with our shock body. At worst, we'd just have to cut ~1/8" below the Lexus shock body lip on our shock body. All we really would have to do to this Lexus shock, is just cut off the fork and install (weld) some sort of attachment mechanism to the bottom of the shock. Basically, it would in effect, have it converted the Lexus Bilstein shock into an insert.

Oh, and the top mounting area did look different. It also looks that this Bilstein unit has it to be a separate piece that slips over and is clipped in place rather than be part of the piston as shown in the OE replacement stuff I was shown in the parts store.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,826 Posts
The problem with that is ANY welding to an assembled shock absorber comes with the possibility of ruining it(and won’t be pleasant for the welder when the gas charge and fluid rushes out). If it were simply a matter of welding mounts to an existing shock absorber there would be countless options available to us, the Lexus SC/Supra ones only fit our criteria because they wouldn’t require welding to make work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #271
Not even tack welds for a nut?

I'd definitely give this a shot myself if I knew how to weld.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,826 Posts
I think you’re onto something with using the MN12 body, but I think the both existing ends of the Supra/SC shock should be used.

I just made this crude doodle from my iPad. If you hollowed out the MN12 shock so it’s a completely completely straight through tube with nothing more than a perch and either bent out or welded on new lower mounts to go beside the Lexus lower mount, you could use the lower bolt to retain both the Supra/SC shock from the inside and the MN12 perch from the outside
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Yes, excellent research. I think we all figured it wouldn't be a direct fit, but why not hope?! To me the Bilstein is more intriguing because the mount is not welded on. Question; is the time narrow enough to slide inside of a stock MN12 shock body? I'm thinking cut the bottom off and use it as an insert. Could even slit the sides on a stock one to force it in then carefully weld it in place. I can't weld either. Was never around one to try growing up. So I'd need help there too...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
XR7 has the idea...I think the forks on the MN12 body are wide enough to go around the forks on the Bilstein. Weld the forks together and go? That way you don't hear the tube up, right? Seems plausible if the rebound rates work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #275
I think you’re onto something with using the MN12 body, but I think the both existing ends of the Supra/SC shock should be used.

I just made this crude doodle from my iPad. If you hollowed out the MN12 shock so it’s a completely completely straight through tube with nothing more than a perch and either bent out or welded on new lower mounts to go beside the Lexus lower mount, you could use the lower bolt to retain both the Supra/SC shock from the inside and the MN12 perch from the outside
I see your drawing, and raise you mine! :tongue:

This is what I was talking about. As you can see with mine, the forks are cut off and in red is the welded (tack welded) nut where a bolt would attach to.

If I'm understanding yours right, your idea would require a little bit more welding than mine and raising any risks involved with welding anything to the shock that you've already brought up. We can give both a try and see what ends up working better.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,826 Posts
The way I install shocks on these you wouldn’t even need to weld the forks together, the bolt will hold them together, but if you put the spring/shocks together as an assembly you’d want to secure them together independent of the main bolt.


Edit: The welding mine may or may not require would only be needed on the cut up MN12 tube, NOT the Toyota shock, and there’s a possibility the stock lower forks could work, requiring no welding. I don’t have a welder, nor do I intend to purchase or learn to use one so I can upgrade shocks, so any idea I’m coming up with keeps it to a minimum and low on the complexity/risk scale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,216 Posts
Discussion Starter #277
I see your drawing, and raise you mine! :tongue:

This is what I was talking about. As you can see with mine, the forks are cut off and in red is the welded (tack welded) nut where a bolt would attach to.

If I'm understanding yours right, your idea would require a little bit more welding than mine and raising any risks involved with welding anything to the shock that you've already brought up. We can give both a try and see what ends up working better.
The way I install shocks on these you wouldn’t even need to weld the forks together, the bolt will hold them together, but if you put the spring/shocks together as an assembly you’d want to secure them together independent of the main bolt.


Edit: The welding mine may or may not require would only be needed on the cut up MN12 tube, NOT the Toyota shock, and there’s a possibility the stock lower forks could work, requiring no welding. I don’t have a welder, nor do I intend to purchase or learn to use one so I can upgrade shocks, so any idea I’m coming up with keeps it to a minimum and low on the complexity/risk scale.
OK. I understand now your setup now @XR7-4.6.

In this situation then, the mounting point (bushing) of the LCA would need to be shaved off about 1/8" so that the Lexus shock would fit. This raises the question if creating heat on the bushing would affect the integrity of the bushing. I don't see why not, but it's a question, nonetheless. Or as you said, bend out the Lexus fork a little bit so that it could fit not causing any potential heat related issues to the bushing. It all should fit within the MN12 shock forks regardless.

I could try it. The two shocks I have (pictured in my posts) are spares I picked up from the junk yard a few months back. Then I'd still have the two on the car itself, lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
On the LCA fitment issue, I'd probably bend the fork slightly to get that extra 1/8" vs trying to grind down the UCA bushing. Grinding the LCA bushing tube will just introduce heat and degrade your lower bushing. It's rubber.


1) It also looks like you will need to modify or make a custom adapter washer/adapter for the MN12 shock top to fit the SC300 shaft. That will either be a washer and a metal tube (Randy/MaddMartigan's v1 design) or to weld in a uniball to the shock top like we did with the rev 2 design.
2) Once you have a shock top that will fit the SC300 shaft, you can test fit a stock spring to see if the higher shock base will raise up the nose of the car significantly -- even if you are compressing the spring down MORE to fit the MN12 shock top mount. Your cutting the spring you decide to install would solve the issue.
3) Another way to solve this issue is to see if theres a SC300 coilover kit you want to try. The coilovers lower the car by lowering the spring perch -- exactly what you want to do.

Non of these issues are unsurmountable.
Get to work and let us know how it goes.

One final note: it does take a little bit for suspension to settle so if you swap springs, you might need to wait a little bit or drive it around a little bit before you determine the final ride height.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,408 Posts
Cutting sport springs that far would be ridiculous; that would be an 800lb rate, at least, lol.

Cutting the stock V6 or V8 springs might make them up to sport level; I'd have to calculate it out.

All of the stock spring rates are in the thread where I discussed it with Duffy Floyd and DLF. I have a link saved here somewhere.

If the spring is too strong, it will waste the shock in quick order.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Would the Vogtland 1.6" drop spring still be too tall?

If a coilover setup for the SC fits like we hope, I'd be all over that.
 
261 - 280 of 418 Posts
Top