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Ok, since the 4r70 in my 94 cougar is on its last legs, I am in the middle of swapping a T-45 in it's place. Only thing is I am trying to do this on a very limited budget. Anyway, I was discussing it with a friend of mine who is a GM guy and found out that an Iroc camaro uses a push type slave cylinder with about 2 inches of throw, and the push bar that it comes with fits perfectly into the slot in the stock T-45 clutch fork. It also can be picked up at a local auto parts store for under $50. But wait it gets better. The fitting on that slave cylinder is the same type of fitting as on the SC master cylinder, and the camaro came with a flexible line that is if I remember correctly about 37" long. I bought the slave cylinder, and I am having a bracket made at this time to mount it to the transmission. My friend has a spare one of those lines lying around that he is going to give me, so this swap should be happening pretty soon. So far I have $875 in the swap, and the only thing I still need to figure out is what I am going to do about the shifter location. Anyway, just letting people know so that if someone is contemplating the swap they could do it a little cheaper.

Mike
 

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$875 including transmission? Damn, I should have done a 5-speed swap. My new 4R70W cost me a little over a grand... :(
 

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...and where do you plan to stick the missing pedal?

Best of luck to you...but I think you will find, gathering parts is the easy part!
 

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last i heard the shift will be somewhere under the radio! good luck buddy, send me pics of the final job!!darrell
 

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Cost you over a grand?? :eek: Is it "bulletproof" or stock?
 

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thunderbirdgod said:
last i heard the shift will be somewhere under the radio! good luck buddy, send me pics of the final job!!darrell
MadMikeyL said:
and the only thing I still need to figure out is what I am going to do about the shifter location.


Anyway...good luck man. I love to see people try new things to make a cheaper way to do things.

Russ
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Blackicelsc said:
...and where do you plan to stick the missing pedal?
Um...right where the dimples are in the firewall. I have a pedal and master assembly from a SC.

Here are the costs so far
1)Trans, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, pro 5.0 shifter, bunch of other parts associated with the swap-$700 delivered to my door.
2)Clutch pedal, master, and reservoir-$125
3)Camaro slave cylinder-$48
4)Camaro hydraulic line-free
5)Bracket to mount slave cylinder-free

As for the shifter, I was thinking about having a custom shifter handle made that would arc back and come out of the center console at an angle just beneath the information center. I figured that way I could just modify the center console instead of modifying the transmission. Anyway, I'll try to post pics while I am actually swapping it out.

Mike
 

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I don't know what's up with all the remarks about doing the swap (pedal goes exactly where the SC pedal goes from a 5 speed SC, and the extension has to be used to move back the shift handle)?!? All he's done is possibly found a new way to use a different clutch activation method vs. the hydraulic throw out bearing. :2huh:

One question I have about using the GM slave cylinder, what is the bore diameter, and have you calculated the throw of the pedal. Don't forget hydraulics can be "interesting" when you start mixing and matching piston diameters. A one inch throw in a smaller piston/bore, may only move a larger piston/bore 1/4"... but with a lot more strength. :beek:

That’s just something to look at before you jump into this and commit to using the GM slave cylinder. (Oh, and I've planned on the same setup with an externally mounted slave cylinder...) :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Bore diameter on the GM slave is 5/8" I hadn't thought about how much the SC pedal would move the slave. Hopefully it will be ok. If anyone knows how to figure that out, let me know. Thanks.

Mike
 

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It's a matter of fluid volume. A cylinder of (x) bore and (y) stroke moves (z) volume of fluid. Then for the slave cylinder, figure in reverse. (z) volume of fluid moves a cylinder with (a) bore (b) inches of stroke.

[(x^2*pi)/4] * y = z (SC Master)

z/[(a^2*pi)/4] = b (GM Slave)

Hope it helps.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Makes sense. So what is the bore and throw on the SC master?
 

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Don't hold me to it, but I think 7/8" inch.

I'm just basing that on what RockAuto lists in their parts sections for a SC Master Cylinder. :D
 

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Ashish said:
Cost you over a grand?? :eek: Is it "bulletproof" or stock?

Well the tranny itself only cost $500, but after a Marauder converter, a 5.4 EPC solenoid, new MLPS sensor, new TCC solenoid, tranny cooler, and J-mod stuff, the total including installation (free, 'cause I did it) was around a grand. I'm sure that the 5-speed would have cost more, but I was under the impression that it would have cost $1000-2000 more. I could have parted with a couple hundred dollars more to have the 5-speed... :(
 

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MadMikeyL said:
Bore diameter on the GM slave is 5/8" I hadn't thought about how much the SC pedal would move the slave. Hopefully it will be ok. If anyone knows how to figure that out, let me know. Thanks.

Mike
Mike

The bore of the SC master is 7/8. Using it with a 5/8 bore slave is going to cause you major problems. You will be lucky if you can even push the clutch pedal. You need a slave that has a LARGER bore not a smaller bore. Small master/larger slave multiplies the force on the load (the clutch diaphram). Large master/smaller slave does just the opposite.
I have an external slave set up in my 95 LX 5 speed conversion. I have a 3/4 master & a 7/8 slave. The pedal effort is light & there is more than enough trevel to disengage the clutch.
If you are going to use the SC master you might consider a 1" slave. Contact John's Mustangs in San Diego 619-230-8866. He's the one I got my parts from & he can help you out.
Also you may want to reconsider your proposed shifter set up. If I understand it right you are having a lever made that will come out from under the area where the radio is & extending back to the normal position. I don't think you will like the shifting action all that distance is going to give you. Forget about short throws. Also do you really want to cut up your console?
This is a major modification & you will probably have to live with it for rest of the time you own the car. Because of this you want something you will be happy with & enjoy driving.
This is from the guy who did the 1st T-45 swap 6 years ago & has seen about all the problems you can run into. Trust me, do the research & don't cut corners.

Jim
 

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what is every1 opinion on using the tranny from the sc on to a 5.0 bird? heard its easier. need ur thoughts people.
 

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yup, PLUS....you get to go with a hydrolic set up instead of a cable set up like the mustangs have it :D ...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My mistake on the slave bore. I just looked it up and the camaro slave bore is 1". So that means the hydraulics should work correctly with enough throw and not too high a pedal effort.

Mike
 

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MadMikeyL said:
My mistake on the slave bore. I just looked it up and the camaro slave bore is 1". So that means the hydraulics should work correctly with enough throw and not too high a pedal effort.

Mike
That is good luck. Based on that information that part of the conversion should works out fine. You didn't mention this in previous posts but have you thought about what you're going to do about having the computer reflashed? Doing the swap without getting the computer reprogrammed will cause driveability issues, constant check engine light, flashing O/D light & other odd things.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I haven't thought about it too much. I figure eventually I'll get a chip programmed for it, but I don't care much about lights coming on. I figured the car would still run and drive fine and I would just ignore the lights. It already has a check engine light for the EGR passages being clogged up, so that will be nothing new. Will the computer actually make the car run poorly if it doesn't detect the transmission there? I am hesitant to get a chip burned because right now the motor is completely stock with 197000 miles on it and when it goes something else is going in it's place (haven't decided what yet, either explorer motor, or 4cam or maybe depending on how ambitious I feel come that time a V-10) so I don't want to have to shell out $300 for a chip twice. Is there any way to get the lights to go off without a chip?
 

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You shouls shell out the xtra bucks to get the flasher! Otherwise you can have a chip reburned with a new program for the cost of the chip. Click Here.
 
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