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Discussion Starter #1
I've read through countless threads about this. My girlfriends 96 avenger es 2.5 has no spark. The car was misfiring then died on her. Alternator is new, battery is new, distributor is new, plugs, wires and rotors are new, checked the relays. The fuel pump primes and gets pressure. I checked the CPS and get 12 volts on 1 wire, 5 on the other and when i put it to something metal the 5 goes to 0. Since the car died it has not restarted. I'm thinking it is the computer, but is there any way to verify before replacing, and if not, what other cars can I pull the computer from. Thanks for any and all help.
I do know I need to check voltage to the distributor but I forgot to do it before I left it today...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Battery was dead so any codes were lost. And the coil is built into the distributor so that's what I meant by test the distributor. I'm going to see if a yard has a computer tomorrow for cheap.
 

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You mean the coil pack don't you? As far as I can remember the 2.5 had been a Mitsu motor built for Chrysler, the 2.4 4 cylinder Chrysler engine was way better in many ways, thought many Chryslers were distributorless as well, you may want to make sure but it is you looking at the car and not me. I never messed with the Avenger looked nice but never my cup of tea and I think Mitsubishi engines are garbage so I avoid them at all costs.

Why does everyone go for the ecm when a car wont start? It is not a common trouble spot on this car and I think you are wasting your time and money by buying one new or used, If you are sure you have fuel in the tank and I mean other than your gas guage saying you have fuel meaning you can verify your sending unit didn't take a crap on you, did on my girls Chrysler Concorde but I could tell by the way the motor sounded when I turned it over it wasn't getting gas, verified there was vapor coming from fuel rail through shreader valve on the fuel line going to the injectors but no real fuel pressure, since there is an access panel in the trunk I decided to go there and see whats going on and soon as I pulled the pump no gas in the tank but the guage said I had half a tank.

I am assuming since you say you can hear the pump that the run relay is working because if that goes bad you will have no fuel or spark and the car wont run of course, next thing is crank sensor think you know where to find that I hope above trans bellhousing, and if you still want to buy an ecm take your old one, find the same model year Avenger or Sebring with the same 2.5v6 compare the first numbers on the ecm to the ones on the ecm in your hand, they should match letter for letter and number for number up until the last few or so digits that is the ecm's own number the rest reflect the car and engine and things like that so they must match there.

I recomend forums like Dodgetalk.com I used to like allpar, but it is dead there now and noone on there has any good or professional answers so Dodgetalk is about best for your other answers.

In my experience from Chrysler products I owned if they misfire stumble die and refuse to start you have no fuel pressure bad pump 99.9% of the time, reason I used to like Chrysler that was the only fuel problem you'd ever have, if you ever have a misfire you are either dealing with ignition system or intake gasket on the newer engines or a bad crank sensor, everything else triggers the cel and a code comes telling you where the trouble spot is.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It is the Mitsubishi 2.5. There is not serviceable coil pack as it is an assembly with the distributor and cam position sensor. I have verified the relays by replacing them with new. The rail gets pressure because I unbolted the block off plate at the end of the rail and it shot out nice and strong. And I only believe its the computer because of everything I've read on the forum you mentioned as well as avenger and Sebring forums. I have a few more things to check before I grab a computer but if I need it my buddy works at a yard and I could probably get one cheap/free. I will most definitely check the fuel pressure with a proper gauge as it also seems common.

And I also avoid working on this car at all costs. Dumbest engine layout I've ever seen.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well it knocks now so it's junk. I only ran it for half a minute before shutting her down. When I brought my girlfriend by to pick it up it knocked right away. I'm at a loss.
 

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Did it knock before it died on your gf. If not smell the oil to see if it smells like gas. Prolonged missing causes some gas to inter the oil system. Could be very diluted. If the oil is clean and you are sure it is a lower end knock try using thicker oil with an additive.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No knock before it died. A couple mechanics I work with said it could be the flex plate. Apparently it's common. Ill try Lucas oil additive and I'm going to make sure the tc bolts are tight.
 

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I used to work with a guy that bought a new Sebring in the late 1990s. The car really gave him fits. Even the dealership couldn't figure out what was wrong with it lots of times.

I felt totally sorry for the guy since he wasn't in a position where he could trade it.
 

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Is that the V6 with the water pump driven from the timing chain? Oh yeah. GREAT idea. :facepalm:
Nah that was the 2.7 and that was a Chrysler engine, pure piece of crap from start to finish in all cars it came in. That's why it is no longer made, like GM's quad 4 Chrysler had to learn the hard way.

Using the timing system to drive a water pump is not a bad idea though, I once had a bad harmonic balancer on my old dodge 3.5 blew the serpentine belt in an instant I drove 6 miles on the battery running the car and since the waterpump was ran by the timing belt the engine temp was never an issue. Plus compared to other manufacturers doing a timing belt on these things is easy, accessable and I can have it done in 6 hours dogging it.

Early 90's dodges aren't too bad if you know what motors to buy, the 3.3 can run forever with little to no maintnance at all, the 42LE trans hardly ever breaks unless you are being stupid with the car or don't catch the famous line leaks they have, not hard to put in new trans lines or expensive either. The 3.5 wasn't anybetter or anyworse than its GM or Ford Rivals as far as problems and durability were concerned.

Anything with a Mitsubishi Motor or 2.7 is garbage and should be avoided. I ran a few Chryslers from time to time daily due to the cheap cost to buy them, and General Motors pissed me off with all the drivability issues I got out of vehicles which included fuel, ignitiion, intake and head gaskets on some models, I knew on my Chrysler worst case scenario I was replacing a coil pack plugs and wires if I had a misfire, never anything more than that. Till the 3.5 came out.

After that engine I bought Japanese, because I started seeing Chrysler started to having a lot of the same problems my GM engines had which is the reason I stopped buying them, I thought the Taurus was ok but I never liked the idea the transmission was so expensive to have done on them, plus the ones I knew of had powersteering pump, and rack and pinion problems, and the alternator is ridiculous in price, making Chrysler my only alternative until now.

I liked General Motors designs and power, hated their problems in the 80s-90s.

As far as the Avenger goes better off buying something else when and if you get it to run right as you will have your hands full of it down the road a ways. My opinion
 

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Using the timing system to drive a water pump is not a bad idea though, I once had a bad harmonic balancer on my old dodge 3.5 blew the serpentine belt in an instant I drove 6 miles on the battery running the car and since the waterpump was ran by the timing belt the engine temp was never an issue. Plus compared to other manufacturers doing a timing belt on these things is easy, accessable and I can have it done in 6 hours dogging it.
The little 4banger Chrysler used was that way, and yep, the timing belt was VERY easy to change compared to most other cars that are belted.

Or was it the 4banger in the Cavalier-twin I drove (don't remember if it was the Buick, Pontiac, or Olds variant - those brain cells are thankfully finally gone!)

In any case, water pump off timing belt has the advantage that Raymondo states - you can drive with a snapped serpentine belt and avoid overheating.

Makes sense to me, it does.

As much if not more than putting ALL four belts on the Dodge around the water pump - if ANY are working, the motor stays cool :tongue:

RwP
 

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On top of which the Import guys have been doing it this way for years and it has done well for them to run a water pump system off the timing belt on top of which encourages people to get the timing belt changed before it snaps and possibly on interferance fit style motors causes internal damage to boot, and on non interferance style motors leaves you stranded seeing as how the timing belt normally outlasts most water pumps anyway its one way to insure the customer will have no choice but to do it for better or worse.

Also great if you have an iron block with aluminum heads like my 3.5 was or all aluminum block as these you shouldn't ever let overheat or even let the temp guage hit the boiling point at all, or you might be facing big buck repairs. People are suprising though they will keep driving it anyway and complain latter when they hear the news about the cost they added to their bill by doing so, and blame the car manufacturer when all they had to do was pull over and shut it off.

The part where it becomes interesting is if you have a cam or crank seal leak and oil saturates your timing belt now that fix can be a little pricey in a shop and a real job to do yourself depending on the type of motor you have.
 
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