TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, long time no see.

Anyway, I have a 1994 4.6L Thunderbird (some of you from the Carolinas remember her, her name is "Esther"). She is not wanting to start when it's cold. It started last summer, it would get to being below 40 degrees or so, and would crank and crank until the battery would die and would not fire. Would go out the next morning when it was a little warmer, and would fire right up. She also threw the P1151 code, about the O2 sensors showing lean/rich (I don't remember which). Then things with work and my son going back to school prevented me from really delving into the problem, so I parked her for the winter.

About a month ago (yay tax return), when I was doing maintenance on my Focus, thought to myself, "Self, let's go throw the battery in Esther for the hell of it." Was a warmish day, and she started right up, purred like a kitten. Didn't drive her because I couldn't find the plate sticker, and knew I had to do some maintenance. Maybe a week or two later, I had bought new wires and plugs, and threw them in. Car didn't start. Crank crank, no fire. Frustrated and out of time, let her sit. Then on Monday, I went out to work on her, as I had two days off in a row (YAY!). She started right up (WTF!), drove her into the garage, parked her. Did an oil change, cleaned off the rotors, checked out the crankshaft sensor and cleaned the electrical connection. Went to start the car to check the oil level, no start. Crank crank crank. Put the battery on the charger. Crank crank. Tried to fire, didn't stick. The radiator fan is also coming on at this time (and it's a little chilly outside). Dad came out to the garage, and started poking around. We got the car to start at this point, but it didn't really "fire up", it just sort of decided to run the engine very sluggishly. Dad says, you have a vacuum leak here somewhere. He found a connector towards the back that wasn't hooked up to anything coming from the intake. Turns out it belongs to the EGR Regulator Solenoid, which wasn't hooked up at all! So, he says, we need to fix that, and let's take off your intake and check to see if maybe those EGR ports are clogged up and clean them out, too. Get it halfway torn apart, and had to quit about 6 pm. Get back out there in the morning, got a new EGR regulator, slapped it on (old one was very obviously stuck). Checked my IAC vs. a good one my dad had (he has a 94 4.6L Crown Vic, how convenient!) Put everything back together. Crank crank, no start. Now my younger brother is over, too. Fuel pump is coming on, getting power to the injectors, getting spark. Dad has even sprayed good gas into the intake to try to get it to fire, no start, just cranking. Change the fuel filter, filter is a bit dirty, but no start after the new one is on. So we let it sit, while I search the forums here, and some others some more. Come across some interesting information about the CCRM being bad, it will cause the radiator fan to come on when the key is just on, and won't let the car start, etc. So, I go out to the garage with a hair dryer, ready to heat up the CCRM. As soon as I open the door, I notice the garage is warmer. I put the key in the ignition to accessory on, and the fan kicks on, then goes off almost immediately. I jiggle the big conduit full of wires near the firewall, and especially the ones near the EGR, fan doesn't come back on. Wiggle the wires going into the CCRM, fan doesn't come on. Go back inside the car, cranks and fires up. HIGH idle, and when punching the gas, bogs down. Mystified, I pour in some Lucas fuel treatment (thinking bad gas!), and within a couple minutes, the idle slows down to where it should be, the funky exhaust stops, the CEL goes off, and when I punch the gas, it revs like it should. Pull the car out of the garage, and park it.

SOOOO I'm thinking now that I have a bad CCRM. OK! So, today, I pulled it out of the car, and put it in the freezer. For about four hours. I plugged it back into the car, turn the key to accessory on. No fan. WTH. Turn the key, and it cranks and fires right up. Tried it two or three times, fires right up. It is very warm today, so the only part of the car that is cold is the CCRM.

SOOOO in short, I have:

-cleaned the Crankshaft position sensor harness
-changed the plugs and wires
-charged the battery, checked the wires
-checked the IAC
-replaced the EGR Regulator and cleaned the three ports in the intake from the EGR that clog (they weren't clogged)
-changed the fuel filter
-put in fuel treatment
-checked for spark, power to the injectors
-put the CCRM in the freezer then on the car when cold

I have previously had problems with the cooling fan. A few years ago, the fan motor had locked up, and it caused the 60A fuse to literally melt it's location in the underhood fuse box. We put in a new motor, moved the fuse in the box, and I also changed out the coolant temperature sensor, and then I drove the car to Gettysburg from Ohio where it was a 100 degrees for 3 days and had no problems.

So, my dilemma is, I would really love to start driving my car again this summer. BUT I don't want it to strand me if it gets cold at night! I'm not sure what else that warm vs. cold temperatures would affect on the car! I have no CEL currently, but might go get it checked anyway (hey, it's free!), and dad suggested having it hooked up to a diagnostic type computer at a shop. Other than that, I understand there may be some obscure shorted wire somewhere, but what am I missing, if anything?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post, but didn't want to leave anything out!
 

·
Newbie
Joined
·
5,650 Posts
The fan turns on instantly when there is a wiring short in the computer or engine harness. When CCRMs fail they typically get "stuck" in one mode of operation, so yours is likely fine.

How are you verifying spark? Do you have noid lights to see if the injectors are firing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Verifying spark by plugging one of the old (but good) wires into the coil, and plugging a plug into that, then cranking.

And checking power to the injectors with a multimeter into the harness while cranking. (I'm not good with multimeters, dad and my brother did that one, lol)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So I would have to take it to a shop to check out the fuel injectors? Or what do I need?

And I think now that I got confused by putting the CCRM in the freezer. Probably should have been the EEC/PCM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,573 Posts
Do you smell raw fuel when you are trying to crank it? Maybe the coolant temp sensor. I had a no start when cold issue with my old bronco and the cts was bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Nope, I've had my head right down next to the fuel rail and no gas smell, except for when dad shot it in the intake, lol. The coolant temp. sensor has been replaced as of two or three years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Oh, lol. No, no fuel smell from anything. The exhaust itself was pretty overpowering until I put the fuel treatment in, and it seemed to clear that all up.

I just don't want to start driving it all around, and hit a cold night, and get stuck somewhere.
 

·
Newbie
Joined
·
5,650 Posts
You might try Autozone for a set of noid lights. They might have them as part of their Loan-A-Tool program. Otherwise you will need to take it to a shop. But the fact that you don't smell fuel in the exhaust is a hint that they aren't firing. You can also place a screwdriver against an injector while cranking and see if you can hear it tick. Or pull a plug and check for fuel on it after attempting to start it. If they aren't firing, this may be a manifestation of the weakness with the 94/95 injector drivers in the PCM, which would mean you need a new computer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The PCM being the silver box under the dash on the passenger side near the OBDII hook up? I can get my paws on another one to swap out, and it's going to be near 40 here tomorrow night (gotta love Ohio). It's been warm, and firing right up. Nice that it's doing that, but not something I want to have to worry about while I'm working or out and about somewhere.

Thanks for the information, I'll see what I can find out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Can't get the car to repeat the problem now! Started it at different times over the weekend, at 40 degrees, 30 degrees, 60 degrees. Just got back from running it for a half an hour, threw no codes, no rough idle, nothing wrong... but spongy brakes. YAY! So, for right now, there is no problem, but still means I don't trust it, lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I finally got it to repeat the problem when I had it in the garage cleaning up the front brakes (which didn't fix the problem, yay, I hate brake bleeding). It was idling fine, then kicked up the idle on it's own, threw a CEL, and bogged down when punching the gas. I got under the hood and jerked and wiggled just about every wire I could think of. It settled down on it's own. It did it again after a half hour long test drive, and I got out the blow drier and heated up the PCM, and it calmed right down as soon as it got warm.

SOOOOO I'm in the market for a "new" PCM. I see that the 95 is interchangeable with the '94 (and is better overall). IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I WILL NEED TO CHANGE? I found a chart online that says if you have such and such programming, you need to change your fuel injectors, and not to use a '95 PCM with a '94 "Transmission Main Control". I didn't see anything here on TCCoA about changing anything out in the transmission or fuel injectors looking at several different threads.

(This is the site I'm referring to: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2puy3-i-have-a-94-thunderbird-3-6l-v6-not-sc-that-i-acquired-used not that I'm having problems with the transmission, just don't want any to develop from switching the PCM)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,147 Posts
Yes, just make sure the 94/95 EEC was in Working condition before buying a replacment. I cant tell you how many 94/95 EEC's Ive been through ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Can these computers be tested? I took a good look at the part numbers online, and mine is already a '95! I was floored when I found that out.
 

·
Automatic Weapon
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
Esther's EEC was replaced with a new 95 EEC in either 1999 or 2000.

Clean the throttle body, sometimes she gets some gunk build-up on the inside where the throttle plate touches the walls.

I'm glad she is still on the road and looking good!

Thanks!

Big-Al, Esther's daddy.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top