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Discussion Starter #1
ive searched around (here and google)...

i have a 1996 cougar 4.6 romeo block and windsor P.I. heads from a 5.4 (if that matters)... does anyone know for sure if you can jack up and remove the oil pan while it is still in the car? or does the motor have to come out for it to clear the cross member?

my right hand timing chain guides have gave up the ghost and i want to check and clean the pickup screen in the sump when i change them... ive had the thing out 3x already and not looking fwd to a 4th time.

AND.. should i get the guides for the 96 cougar seeing as the windsor heads are not drilled for one of the bolt holes or get some for a pi motor say a 2002 mustang or crown vic?
 

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The Parts Guy
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You can pull the engine or drop the K-member. One way or another, you need additional space between the block and the K-member to remove the oil pan.

 

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yeah, ive herd it can be done by raising the motor a bit, but it would be much easier imo just to pull her out and set her on a stand. then you could go through and reseal the whole motor while your at it.

besides, if you've had her out 3 times so far you have had good practice and should be able to get it done a lot faster this time around :p

and i want to say the later timing guides are made out of a better material that doesn't brake down and plug the pickup tubes. cant say for sure their usable on the older motors, but a lot of parts from the modular motor platform are interchangeable from newer to later designs. hence the PI head swap, its probably worth looking into. you could always order both kits from a part store and lay them out to compare and contrast :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@racecougar thanks for the quick reply... so its a nogo rocking the motor up with the cherry picker and clearing the K member :(

@nall one i just had the motor out2 months ago due to some bad main bearings and oil pump... its not the removal, its getting that mofo back under the hood that kills me. i did the timing last summer and was wondering if the guides came apart (the plastic from the metal bracket) because A) O'rylies only had some no name brand i had never heard of... or B) because i used 1996 romeo guides on the pi windsor heads... maybe a bit o both?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
well after taking off the timing cover i have found the issue... the roll pin on the right bank worked its self out and having only one 8mm bolt holding the timing guide on that side (due to pi swap) the chain and guide got to slapping the snot out of the timing cover... i.e. shavings EVERYWHERE! the motor is out AGAIN... new main and rid bearings AGAIN.. oil pump AGAIN... 2nd bottom end in 6 months.

anyone know if there is enough meat in the head to drill and tap a hole for that 2nd 8mm bolt on the head... looks like there is but i done want to hit a water/oil passage.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
yes.. on my 96 romeo block there are two 8mm bolts that hold the strait chain guide to the head and on the block (downward angled end) there is a roll pin pushed into the block on each side.
it has to be factory im the only person that's been in the motor.. hell it has the factory starter on it and had the factory water pump until last summer when i changed it.. still have the wp and its in working order lol
 

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The roll pin is known as the timing guide pivot pin. It is solid steel pressed into an iron block. I just don't see it backing out in any way shape or form. IF that thing worked itself out, the entire curved chain guide (which is the only thing it supports and allows it to "pivot") would have fallen off, yet you're talking about the straight chain guide (or are you?). I can't get exactly what it is that is happening here because your details don't add up....

the roll pin on the right bank worked its self out....
The pin only supports the curved chain guide. So that doesn't make sense with the next quote...

....having only one 8mm bolt holding the timing guide on that side....
The only chain-guide that bolts hold in place is the straight chain guide, not the curved one that pivots on the pin. The Windsors use two bolts (one goes into the head, and the other into the block). Some Romeo chain guides use three bolts (2 into the head, and one into the block). Some Romeos use the newer style all-plastic straight guides (like the windsor guides) that utilize only one bolt into the head (even though the head itself has the threaded hole for the other bolt), and the other into the block.

Take for example, Casey Fry. He is an idiot. Look at what he did.



and then we have germus...




even this guy on "carcraft" who they're obviously trying to pass-off as a "pro" in their article doesn't know that he should ditch the all-plastic straight guides in favor of the steel-backed ones (not just because of the steel backing, but that engine likely has romeo heads by the visible extra threaded boss not being utilized on the left head), AND ditch the crappy all-plastic bodied tensioners that are known to disintegrate just like the all plastic chain guides. :rolleyes:

 

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Discussion Starter #10
my engine had originally and i got the steel backed timing guides (strait ones) and the chain guides (curved ones). ive never seen the all plastic ones. however on my block (ref the 1st picture which is my setup i.e. windsor heads / romeo block) the lower most yellow circle is a non-threaded hole with a roll pin pressed in NOT a bolt hole like the upper 2 yellow circles. i still have one on the left bank (driver side) the the right bank worked its way out (at about 7 o'clock of the water pump area in pic 1, behind the chain) you can also see in the 1st picture that the lower hole (in the block) is larger than the other two (in the heads) .

SO... you are prob gonna bag on my for my fix but time and money is short these days...

i took some threaded rod and JB welded it into the lower hole, and the length is about 1/16 shy of the inside of the timing cover. so even if it wants to back out again it can't w/o going through the timing cover.

i know pi romeo heads would have been ideal but i searched junk yards and craigslist for over a month, and the 3 sets i found that were not $600+ were either very warped or had cam journals that were toasted... which left me with the windsor heads ($225 and $22 for one bent intake valve).
 

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The Parts Guy
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...even this guy on "carcraft" who they're obviously trying to pass-off as a "pro" in their article...
Where are you getting that Car Craft is trying to pass off McGann as a "pro"? He doesn't come off that way in his articles, and certainly not in person. Are you just going off a feeling you get from the picture you posted?
 

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Where are you getting that Car Craft is trying to pass off McGann as a "pro"? He doesn't come off that way in his articles, and certainly not in person. Are you just going off a feeling you get from the picture you posted?
fine, then obvious to me. Call it an overactive imagination or whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
yellow = 8mm bolts
purple = no bolt hole
red = the roll pins

this was when i did a mockup of the pi install

[/URL][/IMG]

this is a close up of the roll pins at the bottom of each of the chain guides

[/URL][/IMG]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
i dont know to be honest. thats just how it is =\
 

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Discussion Starter #18
they both have individual cam caps. i was told they were off an 02 f150.
 

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weird. Definitely don't try to drill a hole for that second bolt on the head. You'll immediately run into a coolant passage right above the combustion chamber. If there was a boss casted you might've had a chance, but as it stands nope.
 
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