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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So.. This will be my thread of my car being modded. I am getting some help from some very nice ppl and will be dumping a lot of money into the car this winter.

The list of mods to be done:

Engine:
*TFS-K519-390-375 - it's a head, cam, timing chain, follower, lash adjuster, and valve spring compressor tool kit from Trick Flow. - Robert P. says there are better cams than in this kit, PLEASE feel free to chime in with thoughts on this.
*PI Intake Manifold
*TFS-K51824075 - this is a upper plenum and a 75 mm TB kit from Trick Flow
*93 tune to be done by Robert P.
*GT Tube

Transmission:
*01-03 GT tranny with either a stock GT converter and FP or one off a Mark VIII - again feel free to chime in with ideas and thoughts.
*Jmod to be done by Robert P.
*Custom build done by Robert P.
*Trans cooler

Driveshaft:
*Mark VIII (has to be balanced) - donated by ThunderChecken a.k.a. Darren <--TY!

Rear:
*373 Trac loc built by Robert P.

I plan on keeping the car N/A for a while yet and of course keeping up with the normal maintenance of it.
This kit claims, with these parts to make 390BHP and 375 TQ at the engine on a PI bottom end. I have a NPI bottom end so to my understanding, their 10:0:1 CR will be lower than when I put it on my bottom end. So I should be right at 400HP at the motor if and when I get headers I would assume.
Now about the cams. I trust Robert P. with my car for sure - I would just like to know what cams ppl think might be better than those in the kit, that's all - I'm not doubting Rob at all, just would like to know specifics if I'm going to dump this much money into a car at one time.

SO..... let the posting fun begin :D
Thanks ahead of time for all the input.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
With labor around the 7k mark - I know not cheap, but like I said I'm getting some help with it. :)

I also want to ask if sticking with the 38cc heads in the kit is better than going to the 44 cc heads?
 

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Should be a cool project. Took me a while to figure out what that second part number was since you got a little dyslexic with a couple of the digits. Initially I was going to say just go for the whole trickflow deal until I looked up the current pricing for the intake system. Did that go up? I don't recall it being that expensive before. Anyway IIRC you wanted to go SVO in the future anyway so that setup should hold you over until then.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I fixed the part number :) sorry bout that, I was typing fast to get it all done.

Oh and Robert said that the TF manifold is a bit too much for a N/A car so the stock PI will do just fine for now since I'm keeping it N/A for a while I think.
 

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Dang man. Splurging a bit much? lol Sounds like you have the makings of one B.A. 'Bird.
 

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Sounds pretty beastly. Keep in mind though that the plastic PI intake is only good for about 200 CFM and as such you should spec a cam accordingly. I'm no cam expert, but it might not be a bad idea to get Nick's (Nick McKinney of Modular Head Shop) opinion on the cam that comes with that combo or on which cam might be best for such an application with the PI intake. He has a few comments typed up at the bottom of his page, here: http://modularheadshop.com/heads/tfsheads.htm

And of course you'll need a higher volume fuel pump and injectors (30# will be plenty). Might not be a bad idea to get some ported exhaust manifolds too. Another thing to keep in mind that the advertised 390 BHP is probably on a manual trans, live axled Mustang with who knows what other supporting accessories (What intake? What exhaust? How conservatively tuned?). Again I'm no expert, but I'd say 300 RWHP is a good "real life" goal here, which would translate to about 350 at the crank.
 

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Sounds pretty beastly. Keep in mind though that the plastic PI intake is only good for about 200 CFM and as such you should spec a cam accordingly. I'm no cam expert, but it might not be a bad idea to get Nick's (Nick McKinney of Modular Head Shop) opinion on the cam that comes with that combo or on which cam might be best for such an application with the PI intake. He has a few comments typed up at the bottom of his page, here: http://modularheadshop.com/heads/tfsheads.htm

And of course you'll need a higher volume fuel pump and injectors (30# will be plenty). Might not be a bad idea to get some ported exhaust manifolds too. Another thing to keep in mind that the advertised 390 BHP is probably on a manual trans, live axled Mustang with who knows what other supporting accessories (What intake? What exhaust? How conservatively tuned?). Again I'm no expert, but I'd say 300 RWHP is a good "real life" goal here, which would translate to about 350 at the crank.
I've seen Mustangs with PI Intakes making well over 300rwhp - prolly wouldn't worry about that too much, but definitely give Nick a PM or a call. He has had a LOT of dealings with cams/heads.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Terminator, the quoted numbers were for BHP not RWHP - so it was done with no parasitic loss on the engine at all. I'm hoping for 300-325 RWHP after all is said and done. The Fuel pump and injectors are something I'm thinking about as well, the manifolds/headers are not on the list as of right now.

I plan on getting all of this done, paying off what I need to then getting headers, and a complete 2.5 inch exhaust setup like what I have now except I have 2.25 with stock manifolds and hollowed out cats. That should round off the mods nicely I suspect :)

Also (yes I know this is with a carb on it, but look at this article on a stock NPI bottom end) http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1006_trick_flow_cylinder_head_upgrade_for_2_valve_46_l_ford_modular_engines/viewall.html That is on a stock 97 NPI bottom end with a bit bigger cam than I am going for with a carb. So I figure with the proper fuel upgrades that I am already planning on and a dyno proven kit, who knows I could be in the same ball park. (At the engine of course not the rear wheels)

Edit: Looks like a smaller cam, but with more lift? Yeah I need to hear from a cam specialist since that is my weakest subject on this swap.
 

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Terminator, the quoted numbers were for BHP not RWHP - so it was done with no parasitic loss on the engine at all. I'm hoping for 300-325 RWHP after all is said and done. The Fuel pump and injectors are something I'm thinking about as well, the manifolds/headers are not on the list as of right now.

I plan on getting all of this done, paying off what I need to then getting headers, and a complete 2.5 inch exhaust setup like what I have now except I have 2.25 with stock manifolds and hollowed out cats. That should round off the mods nicely I suspect :)

Also (yes I know this is with a carb on it, but look at this article on a stock NPI bottom end) http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1006_trick_flow_cylinder_head_upgrade_for_2_valve_46_l_ford_modular_engines/viewall.html That is on a stock 97 NPI bottom end with a bit bigger cam than I am going for with a carb. So I figure with the proper fuel upgrades that I am already planning on and a dyno proven kit, who knows I could be in the same ball park. (At the engine of course not the rear wheels)

Edit: Looks like a smaller cam, but with more lift? Yeah I need to hear from a cam specialist since that is my weakest subject on this swap.

Yeh, Hotrod had another article about a 4.6L with a carb that was published as making over 400hp with pi head swap awhile back. They just do some things that don't look right, little things, for instance - why put 764 plugs in a motor like this? Why not 103's?

I'm just saying.....
 

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I betcha that BHP was with an electric water pump and absolutely no accessories though. I could be wrong though.

I'd do at least a ported Bullitt intake though. I believe DirtyDog has one. You will feel the difference compared to a PI intake. If you ever read my thread on the SVO intake, you'll see why.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That was the same motor I believe, this one has the upgraded heads and cams. But I believe it's the same 4.6 "junkyard Jewel" - Netkeym

GM - I'm sure it was with absolutely no accessories at all - and they used the full length BBK headers as well.
 

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That was the same motor I believe, this one has the upgraded heads and cams. But I believe it's the same 4.6 "junkyard Jewel" - Netkeym

GM - I'm sure it was with absolutely no accessories at all - and they used the full length BBK headers as well.
That makes sense. Yeh, the LT headers with NO EXHAUST, just dumped out the side of the building! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
GM, I found your thread, first of all NICE!!!

Secondly, will that fit under a stock hood?
Third, that looks like it's a bit more modifications, and if I want to go FI in the future I would hate to have to get rid of that beauty, Plus I would have to port the runners to fit the new TF heads.

Don't know if it's really worth it for me, since I'm going to have a fun street/strip car when I'm done, then when I finally join the SVO club here in the Carolina's I will have a REALLY fun Street/Strip car :D
 

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Yeh, I am sure that GM, his Logan intake and his 10,000 rpm motor will fit under his stock hood!


j/k I know what you meant, Midnight!
 

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GM, I found your thread, first of all NICE!!!

Secondly, will that fit under a stock hood?
Third, that looks like it's a bit more modifications, and if I want to go FI in the future I would hate to have to get rid of that beauty, Plus I would have to port the runners to fit the new TF heads.

Don't know if it's really worth it for me, since I'm going to have a fun street/strip car when I'm done, then when I finally join the SVO club here in the Carolina's I will have a REALLY fun Street/Strip car :D
Bullitt intakes have PI style ports, same as TFS heads. Thats ok if you wanna stick with the PI intake, it ain't my car. :) I'm just saying that you will be leaving some HP on the table for sure, as evidenced by my airflow charts that I posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I just checked at www.modularheadshop.com and the cams that come in the kit I posted are almost exactly the same (except the LSA) as their Stage 2.5 cams that are specifically designed for the TF heads. I feel much better now about the kit lol.
 

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With labor around the 7k mark - I know not cheap, but like I said I'm getting some help with it. :)

I also want to ask if sticking with the 38cc heads in the kit is better than going to the 44 cc heads?
  • 38cc is ideal for a roots type blower like the SVO or Tork-Tec that OxmanWI is getting
  • 44cc is ideal for a centrifugal type blower like the Vortech
on a N/A build I'd recommend the 38cc. It all depends on what type of forced induction you may eventually want to get.

You're looking at HP like R429460 made. He put 38cc Trick Flow heads on a N/A build and he was no where near 400 HP at the motor. He dynoed on a pretty hot day but I don't think even in cooler air he would have been near 400 HP. These numbers are much more realistic for you. He made 313 hp /320 tq.

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Thank you TM for the advice on the 38cc heads, and yes if he was making 313 RWHP he was close to 400hp at the motor lol. I am expecting anwhere from 300-325 RWHP when I get the bigger exhaust, fuel upgrades, and headers/ported manifolds to go with the afore mentioned kit.

* All the guys are here are telling me with my auto I will loose anywhere from 60-100HP from the Drivetrain, that sucks but it's what it is. I'm just looking for the most HP I can get into the engine without having to go FI. This kit + the fuel upgrades, future exhaust upgrades, should yeild close to 400hp at motor I would suspect. I will have a 10:5:1 CP which is more than when Trick Flow tested their kit. They tested on a PI bottom end and the NPI bottom end is good for .5 more CR. <-----I know you guys already know this information, I've just been pouring over forums and articles etc. lol.
 
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