[DScruggs]

OK

Now that my Birdie is mobile I need some ideas about bracket racing.
( I put the thread here because most of my questions have to do with options on the 4.6 engine)

First thing to decide is my goals. Given that here they are.

Daily Driver - Weekend Bracket Racer
ET Goal is anywhere from 13.80 - 14.50
Consistency more important than ET

Right now the car is stock with a STOCK 4.6 motor, 4R70W & 8.8 3.27 Open IRS

Items I have already acquired or will soon
3200 Stall Converter built by DirtyDog (Alan)
8.8 3.27 T/L IRS

I plan to get a Darrin built tranny with all the updates sometime this year.

Assuming I install the Converter, Tranny and 3.27 T/L Rear where would the car be then with NO engine changes.

Discuss the positive/negative aspects of moving to 3.55 or 3.73 ratio with NO engine mods, minor engine mods. Driveshaft replacement will get done as well so the RPM limits can go up. Current tires are 27" tall. I calculated that 105 MPH with 27" tall tires and 3.73 gears would be 5000 RPM

Additional calculations indicate that (assuming 3700 pounds in race trim) about
330 HP at the wheels would yeild 13.0 @ 105 MPH
300 HP at the wheels would yeild 13.5 @ 101 MPH
280 HP at the wheels would yeild 13.75 @ 99 MPH
265 HP at the wheels would yeild 14.0 @ 97 MPH
255 HP at the wheels would yeild 14.2 @ 96 MPH
250 HP at the wheels would yeild 14.3 @ 95 MPH
240 HP at the wheels would yeild 14.5 @ 94 MPH

What would the stock motor put down at the wheels? 210?

 

[5ohbird]

i honestly think you'll barely see 200rwhp with just a looser converter. with an auto trans, i wouldnt go lesser(is that a word?) than 4:10 gears. with sticky tires and a converter, you might see mid 14's. you gotta remember your car is pretty heavy. pull as much weight as you can, or make up for the weight with a 200 shot!

 

[Maxion$Mulla$]

Whats up i have buget plan set up if you want it. I think its a simple and fastest way to go about it. basically it starts with minor bolt-ons then susspention to get prepared for bigger HP. then next would be the motor and/or a supercharger. Later

 

[dirtyd0g]

I think you are being to conservative on the gearing and converter.
Do your PI swap with a 3800 stall and 3.73's you'll be well on your way to 13's. My car has 180k on it with a 3500 stall and 3.73's and I get 14.8 consistantly. I think a good stock NPI motor would bring that down a good .5 With PI stuff you should be about a second quicker. Getting out of the hole to some extent is more important than a few HP. You can still get 25mpg with that setup as well.
Alan

 

[DScruggs]

Agreed about coming out of the hole. That is the key. I already have the 3200 stall unit and will be using it. I am far more interested in budget, consistency and reliability than overall speed.

I have a 3.27 T/L unit complete pumpkin enroute to me. I can certainly have that rebuilt with 3.73 gears. I will need a setup that WILL work with the current stock engine for a while as I slowly step up to something more. I really think the stock 94 4.6 won't tolerate the 3800 in the interim.

Also assuming I no NOTHING at first to the current 4.6 except for bolt ons including a tune how high would you want to set the shift points. I was leaning towards 5000-5500.

Food for discussion.

 

[dirtyd0g]

Agreed about coming out of the hole. That is the key. I already have the 3200 stall unit and will be using it. I am far more interested in budget, consistency and reliability than overall speed.

I have a 3.27 T/L unit complete pumpkin enroute to me. I can certainly have that rebuilt with 3.73 gears. I will need a setup that WILL work with the current stock engine for a while as I slowly step up to something more. I really think the stock 94 4.6 won't tolerate the 3800 in the interim.

Also assuming I no NOTHING at first to the current 4.6 except for bolt ons including a tune how high would you want to set the shift points. I was leaning towards 5000-5500.

Food for discussion.

The converter you have will handle higher rpms's than a stock unit. It will be fine up to 6500 however I would suggest trying 5700-5800 on shift point with that engine.
Alan

 

[DScruggs]

Cool. From that I assume (I know) that you feel that the stock 4.6 L will pull hard and not fall on its face all the way out to 5800.

Or that it will do so with only minor bolt ons and tune.

One step at a time. Got to take advantage of 60 degree weather to go finish the rear brakes.

 

[dirtyd0g]

The 94/95 motor will start to fall around 5700 you may want to play with it to get the results you want on shift timing. The pi motor should come up the rpms a little I have seen them set to shift at 6000 many times and seemed to feel good there.
Alan

 

[Porkchop]

What would the stock motor put down at the wheels? 210?

Umm bone stock the 94/95's have 170hp to the wheels. i dyno'd my last car stock when i first got it years ago.

so 170hp + 3800 lbs = slow car in the 1/4

get a pi swap and all the mods listed above

 

[KrAzyT]

make sure u do everything right and have someone that knows what there doing help.. I have about 260rwhp and yea im like 15.6 with somthing messed up.. PI headswap with 3800 TC with 373 is a great combo i run it

 

[DScruggs]

Well I really need to see 15.0 at least to be competitive. I really believe some weight loss, 3.73 T/L and a 3200 converter SHOULD accomplish that. If not I will be disappointed.

 

[Black4point6]

make sure u do everything right and have someone that knows what there doing help.. I have about 260rwhp and yea im like 15.6 with somthing messed up.. PI headswap with 3800 TC with 373 is a great combo i run it

how did that happen?

 

[sleepinggt]

pi heads/intake is a definite necessity even if you don't get the whole motor

and you will actually make more power putting those on an NPI shortblock because the pi heads on npi shortblock bump the CR to about 10:1 along with breathing alot better than the npi intake/heads


and +1 on the higherstall tc i just got my 4000 from alan...now i just gotta get off my arse and put it in

 

[DScruggs]

I appreciate all the replies. From what I have read the PI on NPI upgrade is a lot harder on the 94/95 motor. For the SHORT term (12-18 months) I will not be doing that.

I will do my research but I will be working from the back forward.

Rear Gear - 3.73 8.8 T/L
Driveshaft - 93 Mark 8
Tranny - To be determined
Converter - 3200 (Alan)
Tune and "bolt-ons" on current engine

Once that is done I will relax and evaluate costs

Since I plan on keeping this street driven daily I do not want to go medieval on it right now. I am kinda married to the 3200 stall at this point.

Keep the great ideas coming though I love to learn!

 

[dirtyd0g]

If you need help doing the intake manifold stuff just let me know I have done it twice now. You aren't planning on keeping the cruise control are you?
Alan

 

[KrAzyT]

I might be parting my car out if ur interested in some parts

 

[DScruggs]

I was hoping to keep cruise and everything operational. As i said a PI swap is at least a year away.

Thanks for the offer. No parts yet Krazy

 

[dirtyd0g]

I was hoping to keep cruise and everything operational. As i said a PI swap is at least a year away.

Thanks for the offer. No parts yet Krazy

If you figure out how to do that let me know. I have a 97 servo, but I don't think the wiring is correct. the 94/95 had a vaccuum operated system and the 96/97 were all electronic. I figure at some point I can probably add a power lead to it and maybe a brake switch, but I need to get the schematics.
Alan

 

[whitecoug]

Alan, I did the PI intake on my 94 and was able to keep the cruise. I simply trimmed the end of the 94 cruise cable so it wouldn't hit on the tbody. Works fine for me.

Joe

 

[dirtyd0g]

Alan, I did the PI intake on my 94 and was able to keep the cruise. I simply trimmed the end of the 94 cruise cable so it wouldn't hit on the tbody. Works fine for me.

Joe

I hadn't messed with it a whole lot I intended on doing the 96/97 servo til I relaized the wiring was not complete.
Got a pic?