TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Happens occasionally. while driving car will stall [ at lower speeds,turns] then it goes back to the "crank wont start" problem.

Car eventually will turn over, but sometimes once it starts it immediately stalls this is new

Talked to a girl at auto-zone said it was my mass air flow sensor easy fix but costs 100$

Her reasoning was [ from her own experience similar stalling car problem] I had my car running then unplugged said Mass airflow sensor and nothing changed in how my engine sounded, her opinion was unplugging it should make engine run rougher.

This again was from her own experience, she changed the part and no longer had stalling problems.

I recently changed out the ignition control module and didnt let them heat it up and test the new part at the store. will see how it runs.

Everything on my previous "crank but wont start" problem here > http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=144049&page=2

Here is the MAF testing procedure, but i do not have the "wire piercing probe" nor do any auto-zone/ o'rileys sell it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
161 Posts
I bought a wire piercing probe myself at Radio shack a couple of years back, but, I can't seem to find it on their website now - It was around $15 for leads with a variety of clips. They look like the Fluke AC89's (and are a lot cheaper)

I'm sorting my own electrical oddities with my car right now - and I ended up picking up an PCM breakout box on eBay to try and figure it out (no piercing, and I can have a multimeter hooked up while driving the car still to see what is really happening)

I'm reasonably sure the MAF is "on the go" but, want to make 100% sure before shelling out the $$, and I'm not blindly replacing parts in case its something like the IAC valve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,309 Posts
I use paperclips, or T-pins ( available at sewing stores ) for wire probing.

If you Un-plug the MAF sensor, the PCM will insert its own values, like most other sensors, when it sees there is a problem, it will calculate the load based on other sensors inputs. So if your car runs better with the MAF un-plugged, it may be a problem with the MAF sensor.

Not sure id trust a girl at autozones advice .. she had the exact same car as you ?? Bottom line they are parts salesmen, they are not qualified to diagnose problems or give advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,490 Posts
Not sure id trust a girl at autozones advice .. she had the exact same car as you ?? Bottom line they are parts salesmen, they are not qualified to diagnose problems or give advice.
This is true. As a parts salesman I give many options as to what the problem may be while also telling the customer that I am not diagnosing their issue, but rather telling you what could be. I work with many people who are not as knowledgable as I am, and I don't consider myself to be an expert by any means. This site puts me to shame on a near constant basis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I use paperclips, or T-pins ( available at sewing stores ) for wire probing.

If you Un-plug the MAF sensor, the PCM will insert its own values, like most other sensors, when it sees there is a problem, it will calculate the load based on other sensors inputs. So if your car runs better with the MAF un-plugged, it may be a problem with the MAF sensor.

Not sure id trust a girl at autozones advice .. she had the exact same car as you ?? Bottom line they are parts salesmen, they are not qualified to diagnose problems or give advice.
so if car runs same with or with out MAF plugged in then what?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
changed fuel filter, gas inside looked dirty. and air filter.

-Tested w a"snap on" code reader it was called and it said everything was in range.

tested fuel pressure at schrader valve read 40 psi at first prime, 30 with engine on at idle,and 30psi w acceleration. guy at shop said psi should go up w/ acceleration leading him to believe it's a bad fuel pump $350 to fix

is fuel pressure regulator independent of the pump? One article says stall at idle, regulator may be culprit. Which is when the stall most often occurs, idle or slowing at a red light...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
By all means, try running the car with the MAF unplugged.

Like someone already said, if it runs better you've found your problem.
If you still have the same problem, don't spend $100 on something you don't need!
(I did the SAME thing before I found this forum, let a friend of a friend swap it for me, he kept the original MAF - my car still had the same problem and I was out $100 and the original, good MAF)

EDIT: Did the 1995 3.8L cars run the MAF system like the 1995 4.6L equipped cars? I'm not even sure!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
By all means, try running the car with the MAF unplugged.

Like someone already said, if it runs better you've found your problem.
If you still have the same problem, don't spend $100 on something you don't need!
(I did the SAME thing before I found this forum, let a friend of a friend swap it for me, he kept the original MAF - my car still had the same problem and I was out $100 and the original, good MAF)

EDIT: Did the 1995 3.8L cars run the MAF system like the 1995 4.6L equipped cars? I'm not even sure!

ive already tried running car w/o MAF plugged in and the engine sounds the same, so no idea. This was just at idle in my drive way though,not on the roads, is that what should do?

Im gonna try and find a better heat sink for the ignition control module
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Happened three times today, hooked upthe spark plug tester to distributor and it stalled while it was on. Spark cut off, three times in the parking lot.

Also seems to want to stall more frequently after long drives, and during turns and slow speed/idle at stop lights.

is this a fuel pump matter or the ignition control module not sending a signal to the PIP in the distributor
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Could be. Sounds similar to a problem I had years ago on an another car before the pump finally died.

Joe
what symptoms did you have? was it a t-bird too? no ICm problems?

But would the fuel pump cause the spark to go dead/stall the car as i experienced today.

Car would start run a bit then stall at low idle, while i had the spark plug tester on. Then strt right back up then die 3-4 times in a row at idle. But it also dies driving.

For even put out a extended warranty on the ICM >http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/TFI Warranty Extensionf.pdf

Fuel pump is a 350$ fix and according to PSI readings it's functioning at 1st prime [40PSI]and at idle engine on [30pspi] , but PSI doesnt increase w/ acceleration of gas pedal in park. Normal? Also the diagnostic tests keep going back to the ICM being at fault.when i get a ""crank wont start condition" but now it's also a frequent stall problem

Should i hook a extender cable up to monitor fuel PSI while driving?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,105 Posts
My old car was a Tempo.

This thing had an idle problem apparently when the pump started acting up. I don't think it had any spark problems though. From what I remember I was told, the pump would slow the gas down, then the computer would compensate with more gas almost to the point of flooding and stalling. It just got worse over time until it just quit all together. It was loud too as time went on.

Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
update bought some bars stop leak tablets added 6 to warm water, and followed directions

no more leak/over heating, constant warm air thus far.

what i used
http://barsproducts.com/catalog/view/6-radiator-stop-leak-tablets-hdc

Two questions
now that i've driven it a bit and it's sealed, should i flush it to get any excess material out so as to not damage/plug radiator?
What happens if leak returns?do another application as the directions state?
 

·
̇
Joined
·
3,701 Posts
update bought some bars stop leak tablets added 6 to warm water, and followed directions

no more leak/over heating, constant warm air thus far.

what i used
http://barsproducts.com/catalog/view/6-radiator-stop-leak-tablets-hdc

Two questions
now that i've driven it a bit and it's sealed, should i flush it to get any excess material out so as to not damage/plug radiator?
What happens if leak returns?do another application as the directions state?
It has been my experience..If you're relying on one of these stop-leak products to "fill" a cracked head gasket..You're living on borrowed time..

In other words..Don't drive the car too far from home unless you can afford to foot a tow bill..

If you did any kind of research before you bought your 3.8L powered MN12..You would already know about the head gasket issues though.. :(

So..Just leave the "stop-leak" product alone..Don't try flushing out your coolant system now..

Make sure to keep your coolant level between the "hot" and "cold" mark on your overflow tank..Check it before, and after every drive..

Good luck buddy!



Rayo..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,309 Posts
Yeah that junk clogs up everywhere possible, the engine block, radiator, heater core, etc .. just ask anybody who works at an engine machine shop what they think about it.

But yeah .. im lost, did you do a leakdown / compression test first ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
It has been my experience..If you're relying on one of these stop-leak products to "fill" a cracked head gasket..You're living on borrowed time..

In other words..Don't drive the car too far from home unless you can afford to foot a tow bill..

If you did any kind of research before you bought your 3.8L powered MN12..You would already know about the head gasket issues though.. :(

So..Just leave the "stop-leak" product alone..Don't try flushing out your coolant system now..

Make sure to keep your coolant level between the "hot" and "cold" mark on your overflow tank..Check it before, and after every drive..

Good luck buddy!



Rayo..
i didnt buy it i got it for free when my grandma passed. I never had a cracked head gasket symptom, every test i did was negative. The dye that turns colors to check for hydro carbons at the radiator, leaving the radiator cap off and letting car run to see if the coolant explodes out, no smoke from tail pipe, oil was fine.

it was stop leak or 500-600 to fix the timing cover gasket. which i didnt feel like investing in this money pit of cari do have tow insurance for my car though.

not to mention i still have the idle random stall wont start symptom, that basically makes it unsafe to drive long distances.

=If it buys me a month im happy, if it dies then i sell it for junk for 300$ and start looking for anew car.

Yeah that junk clogs up everywhere possible, the engine block, radiator, heater core, etc .. just ask anybody who works at an engine machine shop what they think about it.

But yeah .. im lost, did you do a leakdown / compression test first ?

i had a compression test [ for the leak do you mean?] done and guy said it was the timing cover gasket.

SO basically cars fukd now eH?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,309 Posts
i had a compression test [ for the leak do you mean?] done and guy said it was the timing cover gasket.

SO basically cars fukd now eH?
Not necessarily, it just diminishes your cooling capacity. I have also seen it clog up thermostats and other parts of the system that can lead to further issues.

Timing cover gasket isnt such a huge job, not nearly as bad as head gaskets. Better to fix it because coolant entering your oil system can cause bearing failure on the lower end. Its a band aid fix for a bigger problem. Usually when I see this stuff used to repair a head gasket, it works great for the first few months and then comes back - but youre looking at cylinder combusion pressures working against it instead of coolant pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Not necessarily, it just diminishes your cooling capacity. I have also seen it clog up thermostats and other parts of the system that can lead to further issues.

Timing cover gasket isnt such a huge job, not nearly as bad as head gaskets. Better to fix it because coolant entering your oil system can cause bearing failure on the lower end. Its a band aid fix for a bigger problem. Usually when I see this stuff used to repair a head gasket, it works great for the first few months and then comes back - but youre looking at cylinder combusion pressures working against it instead of coolant pressure.

so is it to late to do the timing cover gasket repair? winters coming and i dont have time/know how/tools/ spare car to do it myself

cars a 95' w 84k on it all original, otherwise aside from the stalling issue, in ok condition

anything else i should do to prevent the things you said will happen, from happening as preventative? How long of a baind aid month/months?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,309 Posts
so is it to late to do the timing cover gasket repair? winters coming and i dont have time/know how/tools/ spare car to do it myself

cars a 95' w 84k on it all original, otherwise aside from the stalling issue, in ok condition
No its not too late. Only special tool you would need is to remove / install the harmonic balancer and power steering pump pulley. Water pump and timing cover shouldnt be too bad - just make sure you get that little hex bolt behind the oil pump and get a new gasket kit, clean mating surfaces very well. Mark the indexed position of the distributor and rotor for re-assembly.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top