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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6358/first-look-tesla-model-s-p85d-dual-motor/


0-60
P85D: 3.2 sec (vs 4.2 sec)

Quarter Mile Times
P85D: 11.8 sec (vs 12.6 sec)

What's stunning to me is how boring this launch seems. No wheelspin, no drama, just forward thrust.

I'm willing to bet that with this amount of powah on tap though, there will be a LOT more crashed Teslas in CA once this hits the streets.... since most people (myself included) have very limited experience with cars with anywhere near this much HP.

-g
 

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I am really impressed at the advances Tesla is making. Truly setting a new standard.

Hard to get used to the silence. Seems like something so powerful, so fast, ought to make its presence known, at least under hard acceleration.

Autopilot? Not ready for it. I can't bring myself to trust an autonomous car. Don't get me wrong, though. The technology that has allowed them to get this far is amazing.
 

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The headlights remind me of a C6 Vette/FT86 and the silver bars underneath recall the Audi R8. Nice combo.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is the first I've heard of a Saleen Tesla. Near as I can tell, it's just a shorter gear set + body kit.

Apparently, you should be very wary of doing business with them as it doesn't seem like they have enough cash flow to cover operational costs and they are kept alive by reshuffling debt. Bottom Line: unless you potentially want to be in the line of other unsecured creditors when this house of cards finally topples, good luck with trying to figure out how to buy one of their vehicles WITHOUT leaving a deposit.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/saleen-in-financial-trouble-has-7261-to-its-name-oh-it-also-renamed-the-tesla-based-foursixteen/
 

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Saleen screwed over a lot of people the last time the company went belly up, I wouldn't trust buying a keychain from them.

Funny thing with the Saleen "enhancements" is it makes it look even more like a Mazda.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So my boss tells me that Tesla already has the P85Ds in the showroom and are offering test drives so i couldn't help but sign up for one earlier this week.

Thoughts:
1) The acceleration when you step on it is exactly what that video depicts. It's astounding but at the same time, it just seems so boring.

2) The two settings for HP are "sporty" and "insane". Literally, that's what is listed on the infocenter . The catch is that as I mentioned in my previous post, there really is no wheel hop, no tire chirping, no scariness. You are literally pushed into the seats and the car is hurled forward really quickly. no fuss. no muss. I'm not sure I would call it "insane" though and that's what's sad to me.

3) It's hard to describe but because the acceleration is so stupendous yet done without any fuss, it really does "seem like the future" but at the same time "seems like a letdown BECAUSE the acceleration seems to mundane.

4) While the center of gravity is quite low for a car of it's size since all of the batteries are below the floor of the car, at 4500-4700LBs, this car isn't a nimble dancer. It's a suitable car to compare against something bulky like a 5 series or E-Class but even with such crazy acceleration capabilities, the car doesn't feel like a "sports car". If anything, it reminds me more of my S4 which is quite capable and can take lines that a traditional RWD car can't thanks to it's torque and AWD but still won't feel like it's dancing through the corners. There's too much momentum for the vehicle to easily change direction that no amount of HP or fancy active suspension system can really fix.

Personally, if I was willing to spend this kind of dough ($100-150K), I think there are a TON of other cars I'd rather buy (most likely 2 -- a commuter like a Prius that's comfortable enough plus a REAL toy car instead of a compromised "sports sedan").
 

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I suppose if one were to get used to the silent acceleration, going back to a gas-powered car would be strange. It would sound noisy, like it was trying extra hard to get up to speed.
 

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So my boss tells me that Tesla already has the P85Ds in the showroom and are offering test drives so i couldn't help but sign up for one earlier this week.

Thoughts:
1) The acceleration when you step on it is exactly what that video depicts. It's astounding but at the same time, it just seems so boring.

2) The two settings for HP are "sporty" and "insane". Literally, that's what is listed on the infocenter . The catch is that as I mentioned in my previous post, there really is no wheel hop, no tire chirping, no scariness. You are literally pushed into the seats and the car is hurled forward really quickly. no fuss. no muss. I'm not sure I would call it "insane" though and that's what's sad to me.

3) It's hard to describe but because the acceleration is so stupendous yet done without any fuss, it really does "seem like the future" but at the same time "seems like a letdown BECAUSE the acceleration seems to mundane.

4) While the center of gravity is quite low for a car of it's size since all of the batteries are below the floor of the car, at 4500-4700LBs, this car isn't a nimble dancer. It's a suitable car to compare against something bulky like a 5 series or E-Class but even with such crazy acceleration capabilities, the car doesn't feel like a "sports car". If anything, it reminds me more of my S4 which is quite capable and can take lines that a traditional RWD car can't thanks to it's torque and AWD but still won't feel like it's dancing through the corners. There's too much momentum for the vehicle to easily change direction that no amount of HP or fancy active suspension system can really fix.

Personally, if I was willing to spend this kind of dough ($100-150K), I think there are a TON of other cars I'd rather buy (most likely 2 -- a commuter like a Prius that's comfortable enough plus a REAL toy car instead of a compromised "sports sedan").
I know I probably come off as a hater on electric cars most of the time but what really gets me about them is they're either being aimed at the "I want to be recognized for my contribution to saving the world" set with quirky, bizarre styling, OR in this case they're attempting to be sold as this sort of this ultimate car ever, proving the 100 year dominance of internal combustion was wrong all along.

For what the the Teslas are I respect them and I like the way they're shaking up the industry in general, but as someone who loves the mechanical sensation and sounds, of a high performance car, probably moreso than the actual outright speeds, these don't do much for me. They seem natural as a Luxury status symbol cars, since that class has always been about refinement and isolation, and in that light the S is definitely a success, but watching this video is akin to playing a racing game on mute.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I know I probably come off as a hater on electric cars most of the time but what really gets me about them is they're either being aimed at the "I want to be recognized for my contribution to saving the world" set with quirky, bizarre styling, OR in this case they're attempting to be sold as this sort of this ultimate car ever, proving the 100 year dominance of internal combustion was wrong all along.

For what the the Teslas are I respect them and I like the way they're shaking up the industry in general, but as someone who loves the mechanical sensation and sounds, of a high performance car, probably moreso than the actual outright speeds, these don't do much for me. They seem natural as a Luxury status symbol cars, since that class has always been about refinement and isolation, and in that light the S is definitely a success, but watching this video is akin to playing a racing game on mute.
I agree with your second paragraph but on your first one:
I think it's that the buyers who have co-opted the "quirky, bizarre styling" and made it into their own "status symbol" amongst their set. There's nothing you can really do about that.
What you have defined as "quirky, bizarre styling" is defined by the laws of aerodynamics more than anything else -- the reason they all have that teardrop shape is to minimize drag and therefore maximize fuel efficiency. THAT is why the Insight, Prius, and the Volt have the same rough shape
 

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True, I didn't mean to overlook cause and effect, in my head as I was writing that I had the full electric Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, and BMW i3 in my head much more so than the Prius/Volt/Insight Hybrids. The teardrop hybrids are so mainstream now for actual practical reasons that they seem passe with the green set.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm with you on the BMW i3 but

- Leaf is just a Nissan Versa packed with batteries


- Fiat e500 = Fiat 500 w/ same treatment

- Mitsubishi i-MIEV = Mitsubishi i w/ same treatment (I is not sold in the US which is why you don't recognized it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i


I'm with you on the BMW i3 though. I'd even throw in the Lexus CT200 into this bucket of "cars that are more about communicating status than any actual value". The CT annoys me because it's essentially a less useful Prius: I was considering it until I realized that you paid $10K more for less interior room + 10 less MPG (40MPG vs 50MPG) + the fancy lexus badge. Forget that.

maybe the king of this was the Fisker Karma. When the electric battery runs out, you get 20MPG off the 4cyl turbo engine since it has to lug around a 5000+ LB car. Here in the Bay Area, I see one of these on the road every so often as i pass by and while it looks good, I just laugh at that person's economic folly. I do hope that someone (Lutz, whatever) finally takes these to market with an LS1 swap.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/25/fisker-karmas-5-300-pound-weight-20-mpg/

The biggest thing that annoys me about the i3 is not price, the ugly styling, or the use of carbon fiber+aluminum structure, or all the completely non-sporty nature of this vehicle from BMW.
What annoys me the most is that you can pay extra for a range extender (aka a gas engine to keep the batteries charged so you can go farther -- ala a Chevy Volt) BUT it only extends the car's range by 69 miles. That's a gas tank. There's no technical reason why this gas tank couldn't have given it the range of a few hundred miles (ala a normal car).

THE REAL APPARENT REASON IS THAT THEY WANTED TO KEEP CALLING THIS AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE -- which means it must go farther on 100% battery vs. any kind of gas.

This is a clear example of marketing/legal crap triumphing over making a better car.
This puts the car less as a competitor for a Tesla (aka an electric car with real range) or the prius/volt (two hybrids) and more as a Leaf/500e/IMIERV with extra douche.

-g
 

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It's hard for me to trust an autopilot system too. But I gotta admit it probably has a much better reaction time...
 
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