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1994 Cougar XR7 DOHC/5-Speed
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I’m at a bit of a loss chasing a part throttle stumble for lack of better word, this tends to happen at low to moderate throttle around 3-4k rpm and around .6 load, in my datalog it read as low as 7.5° advance(!!!) it was going off borderline (spark source 2) and I’ve got my spark setup to run off of borderline only. Is there a modifier I’m missing somewhere that alters the borderline table? Thoughts?



 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
What are the adder tables looking like? No knock sensor?
I’ll get more screenshots when I get to my laptop but no knock sensors. The adders in the borderline section (and elsewhere where applicable) I set to Deciphas suggestions here, only one I haven’t messed with in that section is spark adder for A/F but it doesn’t seem to correlate to the missing 20° of spark and according to the description works off the max allowed table (which I have maxed out).
 

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I'd send an email to Oscar or Deciha and ask, I haven't seen kdanner here in years.
 

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Don might sell you a tune,if no one else knows anything.
Seems like the only mods for that table were knock and temperature...Is the wire to the knock sensor still in the harness? that circuit has a lot of gain; maybe its seeing a plug wire. (knock sensors are pizo sensors that put out a spike of voltage when activated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No knock sensor wiring or plug wires here. I’m not paying anyone else to fix this lol

My nuclear option is I’ll just write a new tune from scratch, thinking some more about this the root of my issue may well be the ECL2 database I based this one from I used to solve a previous issue related to low speed behavior with the manual trans, and I’m now suspecting there is a spark table or switch non accessible through my MBE3 tune that is severely retarding spark. This thread topic seems highly similar to my issue Spark Retard on Tip-In
 

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I understand. I'd load the stock file, and tune from there,if it works at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I expect it will unless the PCM is corrupt but I bet it's a modifier in the background, one of the tunes I still have on file from Oscar is like that with some dealer level changes for the 4R70w settings(what they are and do I have no ******* idea). When I put this tune together I meant to just use it to load selected values from but rushed it into being the actual tune, I even saved it as “ECL2/SYM2 mishmash” so god knows what invisible parameters are hidden in there.

I will say though starting from scratch I realized the borderline/max allowed normalizers only go up to 5000RPM in MBE3, and if you load the value files from say “99-01 Cobra 91” octane torque loads new values into the cells completely not accounting for the normalizers. I don’t believe that is related to the issue I’m having but that’s something I never accounted for until now. Reminds me of how unlearned I really am at this crap lol I’d really like to see the spark tables or better yet the XY normalizers for a 99-01 Cobra to start from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I’ll recap my experimenting this week.

I started a new tune going through each section A through Z, only modifying the necessary basics(MAF, injector, trans type and of course spark) pertinent to my car… same problem…but worse! Wouldn’t rev well over 3500 now(, timing would now hit as low as -10

Turned out I loaded the MAF transfer function from the wrong value file with the same name( evidenced by the 1.19 load I saw in the data log). Spark is dependent on load of course and with the Ynorm only going up to .889 it seems to pull timing hard beyond that. So I fixed it, problem subsided back to the original problem. Woohoo

So I got hacky around here I zeroed every damn modifier in spark (ECT,ACT,EGR etc), and also raised the load ynorm from .899 to.999 in the borderline knock table, and bumped the xnorm from 6000rpm to 6800rpm… and now it behaves substantially better!

Only issue it still has is spark still drops to -10 for a very short period when you goose the throttle, It happens so fast I didn’t see or notice it in real time but it’s there in the logs, still spark source 2. It shouldn’t even have the capability of doing that since I have minimum spark set to 0, hence my questing of my PMCs integrity to do what I say.

I think I may just do what grog suggested, get don to write a tune. I’m not afraid to admit I simply suck at tuning.
 

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I would go with "Oh teach me exalted master of the mighty EEC...If you make him laugh, he might tell you what it is.:)
The hard stuff is where they make their money.

I wouldn't feel too bad; you have a pretty unique tune.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Did some more poking and prodding today with some positive results. To recap, while my previous "successful" test minimized some of the -10 spikes it was still only commanding 8.5 degrees at moderate to WOT on both advance and borderline in the datalogs DESPITE the tables themselves commanding typically 27 for those cells for a corresponding RPM and load so in reality I only got back to where I started.

Today I decided to try nuking the borderline table and copying those values into the previously nuked max allowed table, and guess what? No pulled timing all the way through the last circle I made, feels strong, exhaust sounds good (it was very raspy and farty when it was pulling timing) I actually cruised around town for a little bit. Upon reviewing the datalog timing did briefly dip to -10 once and once again at a lesser -6.5, on the plus side the former occurred at what appears to be idle with the throttle closed and the latter after letting off the accelerator, I can live with this.

For reference this one is from a couple days ago, 13 degrees advance when it should have been twice that:





This one from yesterday was even worse at 7.5 degrees at roughly the same point (yes my transfer function is clearly off too, I know lol)



So here's today with borderline maxed out much much better, eh?



I only have my xcal setup to log borderline for obvious reasons so I wasn't able to cross check maximum allowed against spark advance but that seems to be a moot issue anyway but since it still logged borderline I was able to catch this weirdness.

What

The

****



I have the entire borderline table maxxed out to 60 yet whatever keeps trying to modify it by half still keeps trying to, 9 random dips to 30

What a mess!
 

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Anything else in the tune taking place when it happens?I swear, that looks like the knock sensor pulling timing; I wonder if there is another way to trigger that routine? My dumb ass added the wires and had it hooked up before I read that it didn't work very well. :) I thought it might be good while I learned to tune.

I'd love to see a listing of every setting available, that way I'd know when to get help, if nothing else.
 

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Hey, here's an idea, Don has an account here , or did, how about emailing him, and asking him to look over your post. It' s good advertising.
 

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I'd love to take one of his or Banish es classes.
 
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KDanner runs a tuning forum, iirc; seems like it was ~$1500/yr membership.:)
He might answer a question if asked nicely. I'd love to touch base with him to see how JL2 is doing...
 
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