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Discussion Starter #1
I just learned the hard way today that the Denso Irridium Spark Plugs are crap. Save your money and buy the Ford Lightning Spark Plugs for your supercharged T-Bird or Cougar. Scott from AED called me and said that the car was misfiring like crazy at 3/4 to WOT with the Denso Irridium Plugs. They cahged to the CHEAPER Ford Lightning Plugs and the car runs great....Just an piece of advice for all you T-Bird and Cougar people...Don't get suckered into the "Irridium Plugs"
 

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Wolverine27,

Ford Lightning plugs (AGSF-12 FM1) are iridium/platinum alloy. They have an ultra fine tip and are full thread plugs. They are also two heat ranges colder than stock.

A-Train
 

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I really like my Lighting plugs that were purchased from Dan Newman. Car idles much better now.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I Just picked up my T-Bird and I love the Supercharger...Getting it Dyno'd next week. AED suspects that I will pull between 330 and 350 at the rear wheels...We will just have to see next week...Thanks for all your advice A-Train...
 

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I can tell you right now your need to upgrade some parts before the tune or pereferably bring them with you and change on site before tune. You are going to need atleast 36# hr injectors and pereferably 42# hr injectors. I would also recomend getting a 90 mm lightning mass air meter. Do you have a 255 lph fuel pump? If not I would get one from mn12performance. Get the one designed for the supercharged system. If you upgrade these parts It should be possiable for you to see 370 rwhp.\

I am only making 330 rwhp and I had to upgrade to 36# hr injectors and a 90 mm lighting mass air meter per "the mans" recomendation. With the power I am making my 30s would be at 105%. Anything beyond 85 % is bad.
 

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Wolverine27,

We went through this and Blown96bird is right. You need more injector, trust us. At least consider 36 lb./hr. units and you can even use the stock 190 lph pump with them.

You'll be disappointed when the car can't spin beyond a ceratin rpm because it's out of fuel on the dyno. Nevermind what could happen to the pistons.

30's are pretty much good for 325 RWHP on an AED kit with no fmu. After that you need more injector and I think with your mods, you could make 340-350 RWHP. Depends on the gas too, your area is know for low octane fuels.

It's up to you. Injectors are easy to swap in.

A-Train
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Both Scott and Jim at AED tuned the engine and it is running fine with the 30 lbs injectors. They told me that there is no need to increase anymore. In fact, Scott told me that he does not know why you are suggesting 36's Anthony. He also said that if I want to stay smog legal in CA, stick with the 30's. He said that the 30's are more than enough to handle the 6 PSI boost that I was given....YES...6 PSI and a true 6 PSI at WOT...The tune was custom done by Jim....Remember that I also have every bolt on and ported heads that are smog legal and done by an approved head shop and can handle the extra compression and spark.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
By the way A-Train, the car is set for another Dyno run on July 5th...

First Dyno run was when the main water pump was leaking at the o-ring. The results were only a mere 352 RWHP and 402 lbs of torque. The mechanic was not able to do the second and third pul because of the water pump problem...It was the stock one that came with the car and had 80,000 miles on it....It has been replaced and is now got even more power than when I picked it up at AED...

I burn the tires from 1st until half way threw 2nd....I know, I need better trires then my yokahama AVID H4's, but I know I am at about 355-360 RWHP now and considering Jim said that he had to add 6 degree's of timing to the system, when he tuned the engine, it is one of the fastest 6 PSI birds he has seen...
 

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Wolverine27,

If they tuned it at AED, then I will call Scott and ask him what your MAF lb./min of air was at WOT. Then I will ask what your A/F ratio is and then I'll tell you exactly how dangerously out of fuel injector you really are.

My car pulls in 45 lb/min of airflow at WOT. My A/F ratio is set between 11.8-12.0:1 at WOT. My fuel pressure is 40 psi at idle/part throttle. The EEC-V then knows it must deliver 3.78 lb./min of fuel or 227 lb./hr. of fuel. It must deliver 28.36 lb./hr. of fuel at each fuel injector. I had a 30 lb./hr. fuel injector that meant I was at 95% duty cycle at WOT. I made 325 RWHP/380 RWTQ (SAE), which is not nearly as much power or AIRFLOW as you are seeing with your combo. I switched to 36 lb./hr. injectors to lower the duty cycle and make the combo safer. Duty cycle lowered to 78% at WOT.

Now let's say that it gets cold one day, really cold. The ambient temp drops to 30 degrees F. Colder air is denser and therefore more air will be metered by the MAF and fuel will have to be sent to match it. So AED has you running 30's right now and your fuel pressure is 45 psi at WOT. Your airflow increases to 49 lb./min and your A/F ratio is commanding 11.5:1. That means you need at least 32 lb./hr of fuel at each of your 30 lb./hr. fuel injectors. Guess what? You are now the proud owner of a supercharged 4.6L V-7.

The same applies if it gets to hot. Air is less dense when it's hot so you'll make less power. However, your ACT's will climb higher with the extra ambient air. AED/SCT sets the ACT level around 160 degrees F. At this point, the program adds more fuel and removes some spark timing. Or it should...you want this set-up if you have the ACT sensor in your plenum (which I'm sure they did for you). So you'll be pushing the car in 100 degree heat and bump into the fuel/spark modifiers for the ACT sensor. The EEC will command say 10% more fuel and guess what...you won't have it available.

Clearly you don't understand that boost is backpressure and not a true measurement of airflow. The fact that you are making 6-psi of boost means you have a restriction somewhere, either in the exhaust or inlet. I don't buy the fact that you made 6-psi of boost with the stock 3" pulley and ported/polished heads. That's neither here or there, you are still flowing more cfm than you have fuel injector for.

Now you do as you will with this info. I have no reason to lead you wrong, nor do I care what you do. It's your car, your money, your time. If Scott tells you you're ok...well then it must be ok. But no matter how many ways I add it up...you need more injector.

A-Train

PS I think you missed this...

"Denso Irridium Spark Plugs are crap" & "Don't get suckered into the "Irridium Plugs"

You are saying that iridium is junk or "crap" as you called it. You are telling people to stay away from them as you've had a bad experience with Denso plugs. Fine...but

AGSF-12 FM1 Lightning plugs are made from an IRIDIUM/PLATINUM alloy. Why an alloy, iridium is to brittle to be used alone. The alloy makes it stronger and Denso uses it as well. So you are saying don't use iridium in one sentance and then you said...

"Save your money and buy the Ford Lightning Spark Plugs for your supercharged T-Bird or Cougar".
 

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How are you making 6 psi with ported heads? Is that even possible with the stock pulley? You have an exhaust restriction like crazy or your ported heads are not very well ported...????

:2huh:

I personally prefer the copper lightning plugs.

Autolite 103's for me. :gapteeth:
 

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wolverine you are sitting on a ticking time bomb if you don't upgrade to a larger set of injectors. I had it strongly empsised by "JERRY that I should upgrade to a larger injectors. I think a set of 36# hr injectors would work perefectly for your application. A set of injectors is a lot cheaper than a new motor. Some of us know that by experience. You are running out of fuel at the 310 rwhp mark. The 36 will have better cold start cartaritisics than the 42s. If you have forged pistons you can get away with it slightly longer than hyperpathetic pistons but detonation will destroy any piston. You might be having silent deotnation because of the lean condition.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have no clue where you guys are coming up with your information, but you are wrong. #0 Lbs injectors can handle up to 450 HP, and since I am at 352 at the Rear Wheels, I am more than adequate with the #30's since I am under 450 at the engine...

As for you individuals that are wondering how I obtained 352 with a 6 PSI Kit, I have Crower Cams, A supped up valve train and a Stage 2 Head Porting and Polishing. I had 239 RWHP prior to the Supercharger kit, with the stock Air Intake Manifold.

Also, as Scott at AED said when one of you contacted him, IT IS A 6 PSI KIT. Thus #30 Injectors are fine....

Scott and I are curious why some of you are preaching larger injectors when he knoew the supercharger, since he designed the system and knows what it can handle. Especially, since he has degree's in engineering and design....Makes no sense that you guys are trying to state facts that go against simple logic....
 

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read up

fuel pump and injector article

injector aritcle must read



Jerry wrote these and knows a more about tuning than scott dose. I am not disrespecting scott but jerry was one of fords top powertrain engineer for years and knows more about tuning that I can even fathom.

injector calculator


another injector sizing equazion


generaly if you are making 352 at the rear wheels to get crank hp you take your figure and go and times 1.21 times you wheel hp to get your crank hp.

Lets say that puts you at 425 crank hp. you devide that into 8 for the number cilinders. That equals 53.125 times by the brake specific fuel consumption usualy arount .6 #per hr = 31.875 pounds per hour. to get the desired injector you need to devide you the percentage of duty cycle 31.875/.85 = 37.5# hr injector at 85% duty cycle.

Remember this if you manifold pressure is 6 psi and you fuel pressure goes up 6psi to 45 psi you are canceling out the increased fuel pressure meingin your injectors are flowing at the standard 39.5 psi like they were rated at by ford for a na application.
 

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I want to see the dyno sheet.

The people who have posted are VERY knowledgable and are only trying to help you keep your engine alive longer. They are not wrong, you are. Why do you feel the need to fight the info they are providing? Read the above articles.

You are on the edge....past the limits of the 30's at least. Your clearly smart enough to figure out a good combo for power....why risk going lean on it? Im sure you can figure out what happens then.....you wont have those numbers to brag about anymore.

What is 200 dollars more compared to what you have already spent?
 

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Boom... :rolleyes:

See my signature? I NEEDED 42# INJECTORS TO SAFELY RUN THERE.

Lets see how many knowledgeable people need to scream at you that you're WRONG until you finally buckle.
 

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Wolverine27,

OK, good luck with it!

Post a graph some time, we'd love to see it.

A-Train
 

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Discussion Starter #20
This is right out of Jerry's article...

If you have 8 injectors and each injector is rated at 30#/hr, then you have a total fuel flow of 8 time 30 or 240 #/hr of fuel. If your car is blown with a BSFC of .6, then you can take this 240#/hr of fuel and divided by the BSFC of .6, then these injectors would support 400 HP at the crankshaft. There are cars out there making more than this, I have worked on some, but in those cases fuel pressure was raised up higher. In some true race only cars, you can run them a little leaner and get a little lower BSFC as well. In the above example if you raised fuel pressure to 55 psi with these 30# injectors, you would be able to support 35.4 times 8 divided by .6 to get a HP of about 472.
 
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