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No, I don't have 4 cars giving me issues. Just one and my parents do their best to talk me into trading it in for something they think might be more dependable. My dad thinks I've spent just as much on repairs lately as I would if I had $200 monthly payments. I have very bad credit and the last time I tried to make an effort I couldn't get no loan from a bank. I'm lucky to have the Cougar with the way it had been 'financed' with a used dealer who normally only sold to people who already had loans from banks.

My baby has been more dependable and reliable than any girl I've ever known. Only electrical issues like the many sensors and the fuel pump have caused the most downtime. Pretty much the only sensors I haven't replaced are the o2 sensors and the Evap canister which are both probably the most to blame for a slightly rough idle. Broken pigtails and many other plastic parts that are known to routinely break are the worst of my problems because I'm tired of my sun visor hitting me in the head.

Sure, I've replaced most of the front suspension and steering but that's to be expected in any car after so many miles. The biggest cost in all of this would have been with the rack because I could not for the life of me attach the new one without needing more clearance. A little over $400 and 3 hours later I could finally steer somewhat strait. I still think there are a few kinks in my steering system that may be the cause of the belt always becoming shredded over time. I always keep one or two of my old belts in the trunk after inspections just in case the new one breaks right away instead of just losing 1 rib.

True, the engine was replaced a few months after I got the car but other than a very very small oil leak in an exhaust valve the engine is solid. The transmission has always had torque shudder and thanks to the Jerry Chip and the increased line pressure it's now only a much more rare momentarily hesitation that's become only barely increasingly worse. My plan is to go ahead and throw another stock TC in there and wait to get a real tune for my next MN-12. This Cougar will be my studio on wheels and maybe the next MN-12 will be the race car.

I'm already trying to get the funds needed for a white 95 Bird but I haven't really looked to see what else may be around. All I really need is something good for pizza delivery but I'd like to stick with what I know and the option to swap parts when trying to diagnose an issue. I know my parents mean well but I wish I knew what to tell them to leave the subject alone.
 

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No, I don't have 4 cars giving me issues. Just one and my parents do their best to talk me into trading it in for something they think might be more dependable. My dad thinks I've spent just as much on repairs lately as I would if I had $200 monthly payments. I have very bad credit and the last time I tried to make an effort I couldn't get no loan from a bank. I'm lucky to have the Cougar with the way it had been 'financed' with a used dealer who normally only sold to people who already had loans from banks.

My baby has been more dependable and reliable than any girl I've ever known. Only electrical issues like the many sensors and the fuel pump have caused the most downtime. Pretty much the only sensors I haven't replaced are the o2 sensors and the Evap canister which are both probably the most to blame for a slightly rough idle. Broken pigtails and many other plastic parts that are known to routinely break are the worst of my problems because I'm tired of my sun visor hitting me in the head.

Sure, I've replaced most of the front suspension and steering but that's to be expected in any car after so many miles. The biggest cost in all of this would have been with the rack because I could not for the life of me attach the new one without needing more clearance. A little over $400 and 3 hours later I could finally steer somewhat strait. I still think there are a few kinks in my steering system that may be the cause of the belt always becoming shredded over time. I always keep one or two of my old belts in the trunk after inspections just in case the new one breaks right away instead of just losing 1 rib.

True, the engine was replaced a few months after I got the car but other than a very very small oil leak in an exhaust valve the engine is solid. The transmission has always had torque shudder and thanks to the Jerry Chip and the increased line pressure it's now only a much more rare momentarily hesitation that's become only barely increasingly worse. My plan is to go ahead and throw another stock TC in there and wait to get a real tune for my next MN-12. This Cougar will be my studio on wheels and maybe the next MN-12 will be the race car.

I'm already trying to get the funds needed for a white 95 Bird but I haven't really looked to see what else may be around. All I really need is something good for pizza delivery but I'd like to stick with what I know and the option to swap parts when trying to diagnose an issue. I know my parents mean well but I wish I knew what to tell them to leave the subject alone.
Your car is very reliable, likely more reliable than most new cars in fact. Just because a car is newer doesn't have anything to do with how dependable it is. Since I have the trans out of my Thunderbird, I've been daily driving my 1985 Bronco, the most dependable vehicle I own. MN12s are the last of the cars where you can actually diagnose and repair problems yourself. I'm a dealer parts counterman so I see how the modern electrical systems fail all the time, rather expensively.

As far as car payments being cheaper than repairs, its just not true. Its doubtful that your car has had $2400 in repairs in its lifetime let alone every year. The best economic advice is to fully own the vehicles you drive allowing you to save money and make it work for you better.

Best of luck to you, tell your folks to leave you alone... :tongue:
 

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That's what I like about both of my cars, they're completely paid off. I don't care that they aren't valuable or new. They've never left me stranded.
 

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sell two of them, use the cash to put a downpayment on a focus st, have one of your 'rents cosign and rebuild your damn credit! Good credit means you can be a homeowner, bad credit sucks!
 

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LOL .. you have NO idea what youre talking about.
Without advanced electrical knowledge or expensive scanners, yes. Have fun tracking electrical sh/t back to specific modules along those miles of wire... :tongue:
 

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If anything, MN12s are the first cars where you can't. Everything is tight and inaccessible. "Modern electrical systems" exist because of the ridiculous amount of stand alone subsystems cars like the MN12 had. Nothing like needing a different scanner and connector for ABS, ARC, EVO and EEC to diagnose an issue. Modern networked systems can all be accessed from one computer, the one DLC port and diagnosed in seconds.

And think back to 1990 when a the internet wasn't so useful. Blinking code sequences were gibberish without a DTC chart and that wasn't quite as accessible to Joe garage tinkerer back then. The only thing a DIYer could do is throw parts at it until it worked again, which can be done with any newer car as well. Since then we have all sorts of enthusiast sites like this to show the tips and tricks, but a few years from now that'll likely be the case with current cars as well.
 

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Without advanced electrical knowledge or expensive scanners, yes. Have fun tracking electrical sh/t back to specific modules along those miles of wire... :tongue:
The MN12 is no different. Stop fooling yourself - you couldnt even figure out problems with your 89. Im not going to argue any points with you because youre too stubborn and narrow minded to reason with.

I do have fun tracking electrical problems, people pay me good money to do that. Youre barking up the wrong tree buddy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
sell two of them, use the cash to put a downpayment on a focus st, have one of your 'rents cosign and rebuild your damn credit! Good credit means you can be a homeowner, bad credit sucks!
I only have the one car like I mentioned and they are not going to cosign anything. I'll save at least $1500 over the next few months and either use that as a major down payment on a cheap but decent car from a dealer or just buy the same kind of car from an owner.

If somebody wants a car that they can diagnose and repair without any issues especially clearance then they should look for a car with a carburetor. I do enjoy how simple it is for me to diagnose my car's issues but only after cross referencing between multiple manuals and using a little bit of common sense. Sites like these should make it easy for anyone to diagnose their car but there are times when there's no way to figure out anything unless you take it all apart or throw parts at it. The more parts to a car the more likely you'll need to replace something which is why I wish I could just go ahead and lose my EGR system among a few other things. The biggest headache for me is tracking electrical problems that are too random.
 

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V8ThunderCat

If you ever need help wrenching hit me up. I have the service manuals for the 95 also. My car gives me fits on occasion but its been pretty reliable.
 

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V8ThunderCat - One advantage you DO have on your car is the OBD-II connector under the passenger side of the dash. There's inexpensive code readers that will allow you to datalog, so you can see what the ECU is seeing and what it's doing, and by using first principles of IC motors, you can figure up where it's broke and fix it. 'Tis easier than with a carb, IME.

(Me? 1991, no OBD-II, and I haven't sprung for a QuarterHorse to get datalogging capabililty yet. So I have to scratch my head a lot more for engine items. For everything else, it doesn't matter - power steering fluid leaking out the end of the rack? That's a blown seal. Axle vibration? Check U-joints, then check phasing of drive shaft. Brakes scream? Down to bare metal. I.E. - all but tranny and motor is the same.)

RwP
 

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If anything, MN12s are the first cars where you can't. Everything is tight and inaccessible. "Modern electrical systems" exist because of the ridiculous amount of stand alone subsystems cars like the MN12 had. Nothing like needing a different scanner and connector for ABS, ARC, EVO and EEC to diagnose an issue. Modern networked systems can all be accessed from one computer, the one DLC port and diagnosed in seconds.

And think back to 1990 when a the internet wasn't so useful. Blinking code sequences were gibberish without a DTC chart and that wasn't quite as accessible to Joe garage tinkerer back then. The only thing a DIYer could do is throw parts at it until it worked again, which can be done with any newer car as well. Since then we have all sorts of enthusiast sites like this to show the tips and tricks, but a few years from now that'll likely be the case with current cars as well.
Oh yeah, the SCs definitely fit into that category of advanced automobiles, the NA cars not so much. Its the difference between cars with one or two modules, and cars with sixteen.

The MN12 is no different. Stop fooling yourself - you couldnt even figure out problems with your 89. Im not going to argue any points with you because youre too stubborn and narrow minded to reason with.

I do have fun tracking electrical problems, people pay me good money to do that. Youre barking up the wrong tree buddy.
What a diplomatic reply. :rolleyes:

There's a reason you make good money tracking down electrical problems on new cars, that proves my point: the average person can't do it. The fact that you can do it proves nothing, considering you were trained to. The average Joe is lost when hes faced with complication exceeding the level of a Thunderbird SC.
 

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Not tryna bash...but you're age 33, and you're letting your parents pressure you into a vehicle? And you're trying to do pizza delivery? That isn't going to bring in near enough to cover your bills, it's going to add to them with wear and tear + gas. But that's just my .02 :confused:
 

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And you're trying to do pizza delivery? That isn't going to bring in near enough to cover your bills, it's going to add to them with wear and tear + gas. But that's just my .02 :confused:
That is probably one of the better paying available jobs in this crappy town.
 

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That is probably one of the better paying available jobs in this crappy town.
1) Ever look into jobs in the oil fields? Abeline is a center for that, isn't it? Even if you don't want to work "in the fields", there's got to be a ton of support jobs that can be had. Looking online, there are far worse places to live: the unemployment rate in April 2013 was only 4.8% compared to 7.5% for the rest of the US.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=abilene+unemployment+rate&sa=X&ei=nuL1Uce3EorWiwK5_IC4DQ&ved=0CLIBEJsTKAIwDQ&biw=1506&bih=702


2) If you stick with pizza delivery, how far do you drive and what's the average speed? If you are doing mostly short trips with city driving, I wonder if you might not be better served trading a tbird or two in on a 4cyl econobox. Not a fun car to drive by any means but likely a vehicle that can get you to your customers for less $$$.

-g
 

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The average Joe is lost when hes faced with complication exceeding the level of a Thunderbird SC.
Ahem.

Raptor22, in my experience, the "average Joe" has problems with making sure power cords are plugged in. With that, I'd say your statement proves nothing.

(Yes, I've done a few panic calls at restaurants to ... plug power cords back in.)

RwP
 

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Oh yeah, the SCs definitely fit into that category of advanced automobiles, the NA cars not so much. Its the difference between cars with one or two modules, and cars with sixteen.

What a diplomatic reply. :rolleyes:

There's a reason you make good money tracking down electrical problems on new cars, that proves my point: the average person can't do it. The fact that you can do it proves nothing, considering you were trained to. The average Joe is lost when hes faced with complication exceeding the level of a Thunderbird SC.
That doesnt prove anything. As an independant mechanic most of the vehicles I get are at least 5 years old, the newer cars are still at the "dealership level" still covered under some kind of warranty. And a majority of repairs are not electronic related unless you own a BMW. This isnt my full time job either, its just a side hobby. ;)

And no, your average Joe is completely LOST trying to take on a SC, not something exceeding it, but that particular car is difficult to work on period especially being OBD1 and having limited diagnostics support - a lot of professional mechanics wont even touch the car because its "too complicated", but in reality its the same engine, with an air charge setup and a couple extra pulleys - and your argument about 1 or 2 modules versus 16 is irrelevant .. a fully loaded NA Tbird has just as many "modules" which dont control any electronic engine functions and rarely fail.

Your average Joe seems to be doing pretty good considering most people have NO problem getting their OBD2 Check engine light codes scanned and having access to the internet, makes things very easy to diagnose compared to your average joe in 1997 when the last Thunderbird rolled off the line, as you claimed to be the last of the easy to diagnose and repair vehicles - if that were the case, stores like Autozone wouldnt be selling so many parts.
 

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And the difference is it takes 1 scanner plugged into 1 DLC port to diagnose all 16 of those modules whereas it takes 5 scanners plugged into 5 randomly placed ports to diagnose the 5 modules in a SC.
 

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And the difference is it takes 1 scanner plugged into 1 DLC port to diagnose all 16 of those modules whereas it takes 5 scanners plugged into 5 randomly placed ports to diagnose the 5 modules in a SC.
i LUVS MY odbii. :)

It makes like so much easier; but I did dedicate a laptop to the car... :D
 
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