TCCoA Forums banner

TCCoA overhaul

10K views 129 replies 36 participants last post by  CDsDontBurn 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay, so the cause for concern leading to this thread turned out to be the non-issue many figured it was, yet here everyone still is ready to stick a fork in the forum for good. Why? It's perfectly possible for this forum and Facebook, or whatever else to coexist, it's a big internet. I know many are soured, and maybe even bitter, by the sale of TCCoA earlier to this year to another outside source, but the fact is this forum is still alive and the club, as defined by the enthusiasm for these cars, while in smaller numbers perhaps, is also still alive, and as for the former it may last a year or it might last forever, who knows? I just know I owe my passion for these cars, and several good friendships to TCCoA and I personally am not about to walk away from it and assume it dies someday, even if I am the last man standing(or still clicking the bookmark:D). With all the archived information in this site, regardless of where we might hang out on this big internet on any given day, should stay somewhere a click away from us and be a good place to go to for the continued betterment of our historical but underappreciated automobiles.

Anyway there is NO talk whatsoever of the site disappearing as far as I know and it wouldn't have been bought for what what it was bought for (which had to be more than the generous sum many members pooled together and offered) only to get unceremoniously dumped within a year. So let's not turn this into a lost cause soapbox, all posts focusing on such will be removed, constructive criticism is the goal here.

If everyone's going to jump ship anyway, those of us remaining may as well go out with a bang, so lets hear the suggestions desires, ect. and try and hash out some definitive ideas to toss at Autoguide and administration. Below are the two big points that I've come up with, the first being software/site related stuff and the second stuff us who manage the site can do. I personally am all ears when it comes to moderation policy as you'll see below.


1) I personally see dozens of changes that need take place here - From the homepage and it's extensions to the forum functions and layout to making it more mobile friendly and such. These types of changes however, we need Autoguide to provide assistance, implement and give approval of. And before anyone balks, they have been receptive and on top of things thus far, it's WE (as in all of us, users, members, mods, admins) who haven't really come up with anything definitive for them to do besides the chatbox in all the 9 months since the acquisition. Many of us including myself have aired suggestions, desires, grievances ect. but we haven't come up with anything as a whole we can all agree on.

2) Now when it comes to policy there's plenty of things us mortal admins, supermods and mods can do to change the site as well. I don't want to step on anyone's toes but one of the biggest things I've had a desire to tackle is the the rules - There's dozens upon dozens upon even more dozens of contradictory rules threads and announcements, stickies and buried in crevices of sections they shouldn't be in and are in dire need of both streamlining and rewriting! It's been the needless cause of conflict and irritation that have made people leave, gotten people banned needlessly and even caused confusion for us moderators trying to interpret, needless to say I've itching to go scorched earth on them. There's quite a few I think the current generation of members would like to see updated or even becoming unrestricted(I'm looking at you signatures). Most of them were written well over a decade ago, with many more active members, and agreed upon by people who are loooooong gone. I think doing a trial run at the very least on easing restrictions would provide a start.


-Matt
 
See less See more
#2 ·
For a good template of what Auto Guide can offer, go to http://www.taurusclub.com and see what they have done to a very similar website. Some of it is good, the polish on this site is great and looks professional.
This is been brought up before, but we have a gallery that has most of the pics not related to the topic (houses, girlfriends, junk cars, dogs). That holds us back big time. We should have what TCCA has, a garage that is searchable.

We also need some enthusiasm among us. Let's face it, our cars are under appreciated relics. Creating buzz around our cars would help create more traffic. To get that buzz, we should be doing the following:

1) OMG repair the relationships with the few vendors we have. These guys are the lifeblood of the platform. While there might have been some bad deals that happen, which is a part of business, that shouldn't mean we shun them. I can name three vendors that no longer participate here. All of those vendors helped make our cars better and are run by guys who care about the platform. You may not like them for whatever reason, but you should.. There is a Taurus SHO guy that runs (or ran) a shop for GEN3 SHOs in the Northeast. I don't care for him because he isn't very nice but I did buy things from him.

2) Find out who has the absolute best car on the board and see if any of the car rags would cover it.

3) Events! We need some more places to go and meet others.

4) Most importantly.. celebrate the projects that are moving! Is someone painting their car? Is someone putting a blower on? How about the guy who is going to fix the rockers? Yes.. Encouragement makes people want to continue what they start.

All of this takes a bunch of work. I would be willing to do whatever to help. People will have to be open minded though.. Obviously, we can't afford to be business as usual.
 
#3 · (Edited)
1) OMG repair the relationships with the few vendors we have. These guys are the lifeblood of the platform. While there might have been some bad deals that happen, which is a part of business, that shouldn't mean we shun them. I can name three vendors that no longer participate here. All of those vendors helped make our cars better and are run by guys who care about the platform. You may not like them for whatever reason, but you should.. There is a Taurus SHO guy that runs (or ran) a shop for GEN3 SHOs in the Northeast. I don't care for him because he isn't very nice but I did buy things from him.
I could say a whoooooole lot regarding this, but I choose not to. Just know that regarding ONE particular vendor, I absolutely disagree - based not only on my personal transaction, but stories of transactions gone wrong with more than just a small handful of members.

My biggest beef with what TCCoA turned into after Bill sold the site (which, actually looks to have started happening long before then, but the sale was the final nail in the coffin) is the fact that TCCoA.com and its forum are no longer tied - in any form - to an actual enthusiast club. All it is is an online archive of articles and a discussion board. Not a club. TCCoA needs to reorganize as an actual club again. I don't/won't pay membership dues to a discussion forum. But I would pay dues to be a part of a club that uses those dues to help organize events etc.
 
#5 ·
What other choices do we have Brandon? You don't have to like all of them, but there are others that could be extended a personal invite to post again and help rebuild the place. We have no aftermarket other than those folks you don't like.

When and if people return, hopefully they won't be welcomed with the "that is too expensive" or "the design sucks". If I put a lot of time into something just to have it beat to a pulp, I wouldn't want to innovate or help either.
 
#6 ·
"Those folks" is one person who did/does something that is not MN12 or FN10 specific - many, many other people/vendors do the same thing "the vendor" does, and I take my money there now.
 
#7 ·
You are within your right to do just that.
 
#8 ·
I can think of a couple of replacement vendors provided the vendor who burned bridges doesn't return. Unfortunately it was never a unanimous vote like it was for a previously banned vendor. The new/alternate vendors I do business with stay away from TCCoA because of this vendor being allowed to return as well as being a trans forum moderator. He may choose to avoid TCCoA, because of the small group of current, active, burned users, but he still may log in, discuss, post, or modify at his will, it's unfortunate he can't make a public apology like DR did, and IIRC even after public apology the site chose permanent ban for DR.
 
#9 ·
Unrelated second post, bring back picture of the week, or month!
 
#10 ·
Well one step at a time, there's not going to be fixing relationships with vendors by bring back one everyone still hates, so it's up to them to make things right or it's up to someone else to step up.

I'm not sure how the events aspect can be handled, several years ago we had chapter directors who organized meets for each state and moderate their respective section, but at some point that formula stopped being followed and it seems like everyone's just organized meets on a whim. I'm not sure if it's so much the fault of the site causing the lack of meets so much as it's lack of interest among members themselves, there's really nothing stopping gatherings as is.

National events would be nice though, and that's probably the main benefit of the chapter director setup we had since they could get headcounts and stuff to figure out how many are going. I have no idea for sure how the financial structure was back then but I always imagined a lot of the original $40 annual membership fee went to this aspect(in addition to the packets) due to the necessary responsibilities, I'm sure some of the long time members **ahem, vicrattlehead** could shed some light on this without whining :D


I personally don't think there should be membership at all if it's just going to stay a message board as it is now, as in standardize member features like galleries and avatar size. And I wholeheartidly agree about a garage section, vs the gallery, which I also agree needs to be cleaned up of non MN12 clutter at the very least...AGAIN(Trunk Monkey and I cleaned the junk out a few years ago but it's been gradually recluttered since)
 
#11 · (Edited)
I think we are at the point where we have too many chapters. Making the chapters regional may make sense for the amount of people we have.

Instead of Picture of the Month, why not run a "Car of the Month" competition? We could all vote and have a "Hall of Fame" where the entry thread stays intact for the winning car. It worked good for TCCA and for FordAspire.com when it was active.
 
#12 ·
On the subject of making changes to get more real traffic here..Humans I mean.. :tongue:

IMO..One of the reasons a lot of the members have left the forums here to join the FaceBook group is out of convenience..

Most of our newest members are posting from a smartphone or smart device, and find the FaceBook page much easier to navigate with these devices..

In order to get more real traffic here..TCCoA needs to make itself as smartphone or smart device friendly as possible..

With fewer and fewer people even owning a home pc anymore..I think this idea of making the site easier to navigate with these devices is a good one..

Updating TCCoA to make itself more smartphone or smart device friendly has been talked about before..

So this time I'd like to see some real action from the owners of this site so we can move forward..
:)





Rayo..
 
#13 ·
#14 ·
Darrin, Lonnie, Chris at Circle D, the staff of precision industries, etc. All avoid this place due to moderation abilities of DD if I recall correctly.
 
#17 ·
Which was awarded as part of a now ancient under-the-table deal with Bill, IIRC.... Now that Bill doesn't run the club or site... :zdunno: ;)
 
#15 ·
I love this site. I've been watching since my dad owned a Thunderbird many years ago. I've had 3 of my own since then and the things I love about this place are as follows:

1. A great group of guys that actually care about keeping our platform on the road.

2. Information about local shows to take the bird to.

3. A plethora of knowledge that took me from a man with little mechanical training to a full blown backyard-parts changing knucklehead.

I still think this is a great place and a testament to how well crafted our cars were. It's just my opinion, but I love this place and the people I've met in here and wouldn't trade it for anything else.

It could use a sprucing up and some major changes :)usa:) could benefit everyone a lot, but this place is like my vacation home.

Just my two cents.
 
#16 ·
Personally I've had only limited vendor issues and fully disclose them when asked directly (Rayo can verify this). All my issues have/were addressed, so a bit wiser but not burned.

As for traffic, I agree smartphone access is what would be needed. I won't/don't access with my phone normally and that won't change--for me--I can't type effectively on the the blasted thing.
 
#18 ·
I guess that is why it is rare for vendors to be moderators. It didn't work out well when Northeast SHO owned TCCA for a short time either. Almost killed the place.

If we ever get this place worked out, there should be a rule against such appointments due to conflict of interests.
 
#19 ·
I agree. Perks for being an active vendor should be limited to adspace and a dedicated forum/thread for products/questions and the like.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I don't have any opinions on the finer details of the site regarding mobile use (though I support the idea) or vendors. I value the basic forum content more than anything else, really. And what great content there is! Well organized, too.

These forums right here are the best MN12 forums around. No doubt about it. Small as it may seem at times, this is the premier place to be for MN12 info. Not only that, but we get visits from other Ford enthusiasts, for example, Mustang and Crown Vic owners due to the wealth of transmission info. I'm not sure if paid memberships are the way to go, though. A donation system might be more appropriate. That's how I view my membership anyway, and consider it a small reimbursement for what I get out of the forums.

With the Thunderbird and Cougar no longer in production, interest and participation is certain to dwindle from here on. I can admit that the Thunderbird is a niche car and bringing it back really isn't Ford's best option right now. The Mustang, to a large degree, fills that need. If something terrible were to happen and this site were to go down, a lot of information would become very hard to find. I think it would become imperative for these forums to exist in (at least) an archived form.

Aside from mobile accessibility for other members, the only recommendation I can offer is perhaps a color palette change. I've found black backgrounds to be easier on the eyes...
 
#21 · (Edited)
Here is what we need, A NEW FORUM ORGANIZATION for MAIN forums, and SUB forums.
The Miscellaneous section is really unorganized, and the subject matter is too broad within, needs to be divided up

Add a Main section called "The Bird Nest"

In it have a couple sub forums as follows

"The Scratching Post" A PAID members only section, not visible to other members.

"The Litter Box" A Registered member only section for threads dealing with whatever. [By registered, I mean having a username/ pword account, not premium] Not visible to non-registered viewers.

"Firearms" For more organized discussion towards things revolving around that topic

"Bird Droppings" A politics section, talk about whats in the news, etc. Don't like politics? Don't read or enter this sub forum...

"Bird Brain" A technology/computer section for general IT discussions.

So here is how the organization would look:

Instead of the section "Other Stuff" rename it to "The Bird Nest"

The Bird Nest (Allow threads in this forum as well for misc posts not related to the subs below.)
- The Scratching Post
- The Litter Box
- Bird Brains
- Firearms
- Bird Droppings

Change the names to whatever you see fit, but you see where I'm going with it. Organization, in a humorous way that relates to our platform. Even if unrelated, it looks related, and we are human so we all want to discuss non-MN-12 things from time to time, this is the place for that.

It may seem silly, but setting this type of organization up would promote conversation between members building the community back up, and from there we can work together on fixing the technical articles, main MN-12 items, but for the mean time at least we have an organized way to
"keep in touch" and "hangout".

In addition, as I said before, investing in a Ventrilo server for Voice communication would be awesome, not many forums have such a thing, and I think it would be great to talk to other members and hear voices, it's a cheap option, and can be organized for different discussions of different topics. I could run the admin on it because I used to manage 400 clients for game servers back in the day on that program lol.

So Black_Cat's suggestions to bring this ancient fossil back to life:
1.) A revamped clubhouse area (Misc section)
2.) A Voice server (Ventrilo)
3.) Gallery system for non-paid, but registered members, attach the Gallery (Garage) to the member profile, so there is no gallery section, which makes it easier to find certain people's cars/ builds.
 
#22 ·
"The Bird Nest" is already being used with the retro guys forum, we don't want them calling us out on that one! :eek:

Political forums have been tried in the past and turned into a horror show! It's easy to say don't read it if you don't want to, then it gets ugly just the same. That's why it was dropped before.

There already is a Members Only section for paid members and moderators.

Keep 'em coming! :D

Joe
 
#23 ·
No political talk... It divides people.
 
#24 ·
Did anyone even bother to read the whole post? I said the forum could be named whatever we deem fit, I'm just showing the structure of it. As far as "Politics" divide people, it only divides immature people, if you're a grown man, you respect a fellow mans opinion, debate is good fun. And um yeah it is really as easy as if you don't want to see it, don't click on it...nobody is holding your hand online. Don't think it works? Need I point to Modded Mustangs again... :rolleyes:

You people really need to start thinking outside the box and embracing change. Linear systems always fail, you have to constantly evolve to benefit all audiences.

Have any of you even considered the fact that the average age for an MN-12 owner has gone from around 40-55 to 20-35? No? I guess nobody here took a statistics course? I hate to be so brash, but nobody wants to listen in this place, and the opinions of a few to keep this forum stagnant is what is preventing great progress on this website.
 
#28 ·
Ian I pretty much back all of your suggestions but that one, Political sections tend to only work one way on forums and it tends to become a one sided soapbox in and of itself. Think about it, what party do pro internal combustion car-centric forums tend to overwhelmingly lean on? One that has a Firearms section you mention (there briefly was one, which is where the guns thread originally started, and not that I'm against it) should give a hint. Think there's going to be a well balanced debate pro gun control like topics, think those kinds of topics will even exist?

This forum has had it twice in my time here, I think the last time ended right about the time of your join date and I personally witnessed a chunk of people disappear from the forum forever between the start of that section and it's end. It's nice to idealize maturity but lets face it, that's the last thing politics is known for. You're already berating people for not taking a statistics courses because they don't agree with you.

To the last point, keep in mind this thread is to be constructive and democratic, I know you love Modded Mustangs, and I think many agree it provides a good example of a modern forum to use as a template of sorts, but not everyone else, even in the 20-35 age bracket, thinks it's the most perfect forum ever, otherwise we'd all have migrated there already. So we all need to remember that some compromise is an inevitability, ALL forums have some level of it in their design.

And what's with the overwhealming use Bird names? I understand they are meely examples but come on, those names really make me question the commitment to your Cougar fetish :tongue:
 
#25 ·
Dude, no one cares about politics. There are a million places to argue about politics. Why not start a War Board where I can insult your Mom or your dog? After all, it is the War Board and it isn't personal. Sounds like fun.
 
#26 ·
I did read the whole post and I never said I wasn't listening to anyone here. I'm open to change and I think most people here are as well.

I'd love to see this place get the traffic back that it had in the past but unfortunately we don't own it, AutoGuide does! The same AutoGuide that owns Modded Mustangs. Maybe what we need is to get them involved in this discussion as well and then they can tell us what can be done.

We really don't need to get into a pissing contest here.

Joe
 
#27 ·
We really don't need to get into a pissing contest here.
Thank you Joe.

Did anyone even bother to read the whole post? I said the forum could be named whatever we deem fit, I'm just showing the structure of it. As far as "Politics" divide people, it only divides immature people, if you're a grown man, you respect a fellow mans opinion, debate is good fun. And um yeah it is really as easy as if you don't want to see it, don't click on it...nobody is holding your hand online. Don't think it works? Need I point to Modded Mustangs again... :rolleyes:

You people really need to start thinking outside the box and embracing change. Linear systems always fail, you have to constantly evolve to benefit all audiences.

Have any of you even considered the fact that the average age for an MN-12 owner has gone from around 40-55 to 20-35? No? I guess nobody here took a statistics course? I hate to be so brash, but nobody wants to listen in this place, and the opinions of a few to keep this forum stagnant is what is preventing great progress on this website.
Being so "in your face" about everything and getting upset when people disagree with you won't make people see your side of things, you know...
 
This post has been deleted
#29 ·
I stopped paying a long time ago, due to one person arrogance and disrespectful words. I do not claim to be an expert on theses cars, but I was belittled none the less. Also, received no stickers, members only access or web page. It hammered in the reality that one of my favorite sites is just like all the rest, I wasted my money. Luckily I don’t need validation from anyone, it does not effect me. It does point where I will spend my 10$ an hour pay check. (unfortunately not Joking) This is to let you all in on a little secret, I know 10 military members who tried this site out. And left due to the same treatment I got. Wake up and smell the coffee, change is needed if web wide automotive recognition is what we want.

All the above posts have one thing in common; they all describe the site prior to 2002 with add on advancements. I like the site the way it is for the most part as far as design and tools however, if there are multiple problems then by all means change. My preliminary suggestions treat it like an experiment or reboot. Reset the site to the last working perimeters. Set it back to Sir William's core design of rule and regulations. This stays with the spirit of TCCOA, making it any other way would be sacrilegious. This strategy has nothing to do with technological upgrades. Those can be introduced once the site is shaped and polished.

Address the complex gambit of contradictory regulations. Set up rules that everyone from newbie to grand moderator must follow, period. Do not give lee-way to anyone; if a person is banned then it is up to the group of moderators to grant a turn over or appeal. Banishment is a serious charge on this site. One step more, include the person the rule directly affected to get his or her opinion.

Also, address the term moderator and utilize the best person for the job. Not the most well known or even the most Knowledgeable of our platform (that’s an expert not a moderator, possibly annotate the EXPERT.). The moderators are there to enforce the rules of the forum that’s it. In addition, this site is going to collect the argumentative. Time and time again I have witnessed moderators getting "into it", with a bold faced Puttz. This single action should go against the rule and regs. It undermines the professionalism of the TCCOA forum. Go to a blog if you want to argue. If that isn’t working get a plane ticket, rent a gym and go put up or shut up in a boxing ring.

The secure play is to Run it like a business model. Consider changes only when site is up and running, then only in proposal form and only when all appointed supervisory staff has time to consider. If cost is a consideration then do what all organizations do, have a raffle or group fund raiser.
If you want to gain notoriety, then step up get some integrity and act like a group that is proud of their site and respects the visitors. Further more, embrace the “Jonny know nothing” It isn't the notoriety of the fastest T-bird, Cougar, MK-VII that is going to do it. Though great exposure and advertisement ideas, it doesn't address the elephant in the room. Our site is just like all the other sites, full of good old boy relationships, high horse, down the nose looking A-h@#$ that could really care less if the newbie is an automotive engineer or tree stump. It is all about the aforementioned thought, high and mightyism. If one conveyor or moderator of this site did it just one time, or the actions of the site were not professional. That tree stump goes to mustange.net or (insert car here).com then all the forward progress we made is dashed into pieces, it is called slippery slope folks. I have one more thing to say, than I will step down off my box. Did you ever consider the reason this site went to an impartial entity? Perhaps to ensure objectivity.

Thank you,
Funderbird
Actually that's Mark VIII, not MK-VII, geez! :D

I won't get too into it with you on moderation, but if there is an issue with the moderation it's due to the way the rules currently are structured. Have a look in there, if moderation is to "enforce the rules of the forum that’s it" things as is are going swimmingly. That's why I brought up redoing them in my first post. The reality is there's a lot of thought and build up that goes into something like banning an actual person here, it's never one touch and your banned unless it's a spammer(which in the last 5 years has been a ridiculous and thankless task for mrs.t and Rodeo Joe). And there's nothing that says a moderator can't engage in discussion just as a regular member does, there's nothing that incentives us to stay out of an argument or engage in one unless it gets out of hand. We're ALL enthusiasts in the end, if I'm interested in a topic to discuss I'm going to discuss it, regardless of my title.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Not that I post much, but it'd be nice for the chat to be integrated into all of the site. Another form I frequent uses Arrowchat which is nice. You can have a group chat, while having all of your PM tabs at the very bottom of the screen. If you don't like it, you can shut it off and you'll receive PMs in your inbox.

Chat on
http://i.imgur.com/I7sUcs0.png

Chat off
http://i.imgur.com/r3IGMcx.png

Unfortunately by integrating the pictures into my post, it either makes them makes them incredibly big or incredibly small. So direct links will have to do.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top