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It wasn't made to be a race car, I've rode in a new SEL Taurus and it is quite comfy, which is what Ford was trying to accomplish.

Remember, nothing else from Ford can be even close to touching the Mustang in terms of speed or acceleration. Mustang HAS to be the top dog.

Wheres Rayo to help me rant?
 

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...

Remember, nothing else from Ford can be even close to touching the Mustang in terms of speed or acceleration. Mustang HAS to be the top dog.

Wheres Rayo to help me rant?
:uppoint: LOL

So true!

So sad :( but so true.

I'll rant with you here. :zsoapbox:

It's a damn shame when GM is turning out Vetts AND Camaros, and really fast Cadillacs with the "V" series ... Who'd have ever thought Cadillac would be a performance company :confused:

And on the Mopar side Dodge has the Viper, AND the Charger R/T and SRT8, AND the Challanger R/T AND SRT8.

Why the hell can't Ford build more than one muscle car? Why? Because they've become the King of the Econo box with the Fiesta, Focus and Fusion to keep their CAFE average down so that they can sell more Mustangs and F150's.
 

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:uppoint: LOL

So true!

So sad :( but so true.

I'll rant with you here. :zsoapbox:

It's a damn shame when GM is turning out Vetts AND Camaros, and really fast Cadillacs with the "V" series ... Who'd have ever thought Cadillac would be a performance company :confused:

And on the Mopar side Dodge has the Viper, AND the Charger R/T and SRT8, AND the Challanger R/T AND SRT8.

Why the hell can't Ford build more than one muscle car? Why? Because they've become the King of the Econo box with the Fiesta, Focus and Fusion to keep their CAFE average down so that they can sell more Mustangs and F150's.
Ford's been doing that forever, welcome to the demise of the Thunderbird. How could a $22k luxury grand touring car potentially take sales from a $15k pony car... :doh:

BMW has the 1M, M3, and M6... they don't compete with each other... :confused:

I did an oil change on a 2011 Mustang GT today, the guy put it Boss 302 Laguna Seca garb all over it even though it was a regular GT. :doh:
 

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SuperThunderbirdLX said:
It wasn't made to be a race car, I've rode in a new SEL Taurus and it is quite comfy, which is what Ford was trying to accomplish.

Remember, nothing else from Ford can be even close to touching the Mustang in terms of speed or acceleration. Mustang HAS to be the top dog.

Wheres Rayo to help me rant?
My thoughts on the Mustang..

A picture is worth a thousand words?????
Poop On Mustang.jpg

:D





Rayo..
 

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My thoughts on the Mustang..

A picture is worth a thousand words?????
*Elephant Dung*


:D




Rayo..
Mustangs aren't terrible cars, mine makes for a great quick reliable daily driver while I wrench on the Thunderbird. I just realize its just a gussied up Fairmont, nothing to shout about. :tongue:

On paper the MN12 is a MUCH better automobile.
 

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How did a thread about a SHO turn into an MN12 thread?:tongue:

Honestly considering what Ford had planned to do with the Mustang by the time of the MN12s development it was hardly an untouchable flagship performance model. I've long since abandoned the notion that the Mustang killed the Thunderbird, they were totally different cars during their overlap. The imploding coupe market and small profit margin of the MN12 platform killed the Thunderbird. The Mustang is an easy scapegoat for fanboys.

Also, SVT was the pseudo equivalent to BMW's M series. There was a Focus, a Contour, a Mustang and the Lightning. They're both low volume but Bimmers cost a whole lot more than SVT just for base models, let alone the M division! They also are a company that blatantly markets themselves as a performance vehicle make so they can easily market a performance model in your choice of size. They'll make good profit on whichever one they sell.

Ford on the other hand is a generally conservative company that occasionally ventures outside the box. The problem when that happens is there's always internal struggle to keep prices low causing a rapid decontention of the current products. The MN12 was the prime example of this. Take the 1990 lineup for example(which one could consider the peak of the innovative and daring 80s Ford); There's the Festiva, Escort, Tempo, Probe, Mustang, Taurus, Thunderbird, and Crown Vic. Almost none of those share the same running gear, underpinnings and even trivial interior bits. Conversely, less than 10 years earlier, 2/3rds of the entire car lineup was based on the Fox platform!

Throughout the rest of the 90s Ford centralized options, eliminated certain submodels, eliminated other models and began dabbling on Americanized global products (Contour) like we have today. Honestly, the SHO is a beast considering it's spawned from an old Volvo chassis. Is it not matching Mustang GT straight line performance REALLY stopping anyone here from buying it?

It's a damn shame when GM is turning out Vetts AND Camaros, and really fast Cadillacs with the "V" series ... Who'd have ever thought Cadillac would be a performance company :confused:
Seemed inevitable when the generation that thought tailfins, hubcaps, whitewalls and tufted pillow seats were luxurious officially died off lol
 

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A lot of thunderbird die hards hating on a non thunderbird.

The SHO is a sweet car. The wife can take the kids to school and then the husband can go try to blow it up during his mid life crisis afternoon.

Mustangs will always be the most recognized muscle car, even though they havent been a muscle car since 69, and they havent been visually appealing after 93.
 

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Mustangs were never Muscle cars, they were pony cars based on the compact Falcon line and marketed as more as a small(for the time) sporty car. If anything they were more muscle cars in 69-72 since they were way out of compact dimensions by then and had BIG motors being installed right from the factory.
 

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I will always consider them muscle cars. Next to the Charger, Javelin, AMX, and the GTO. ITs all about opinion in talking about something like this IMO. Not everyones opinion is wrong, just different.
 

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I'm just saying there's a clear divide. Muscle cars were generally midsized based on a mass production model with big cube and/or power package. Blanketing every American performance car from the 60s as a muscle car is just as inaccurate as saying the current SHO and Mustang GT are in the same class today just because they're both fast.
 

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I'm just saying there's a clear divide. Muscle cars were generally midsized based on a mass production model with big cube and/or power package. Blanketing every American performance car from the 60s as a muscle car is just as inaccurate as saying the current SHO and Mustang GT are in the same class today just because they're both fast.
Closest we've had to a modern muscle car is the Challenger (because its huge) and to a lesser extend the Marauder (because its also huge, but its a 4 door) and the MN12, but the last two don't have enough cubes.

I dont think they should make the SHO into a Thunderbird because a Thunderbird should never have front biased AWD.
 

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I'm just saying there's a clear divide. Muscle cars were generally midsized based on a mass production model with big cube and/or power package. Blanketing every American performance car from the 60s as a muscle car is just as inaccurate as saying the current SHO and Mustang GT are in the same class today just because they're both fast.
I understand what you mean. I definitely dont consider all cars from the 60s muscle cars.

Closest we've had to a modern muscle car is the Challenger (because its huge) and to a lesser extend the Marauder (because its also huge, but its a 4 door) and the MN12, but the last two don't have enough cubes.

I dont think they should make the SHO into a Thunderbird because a Thunderbird should never have front biased AWD.
MN12 is nothing close to a muscle car in my opinion. I love thunderbirds, dont get me wrong, but there is nothing special about them. ITs a big bodied mustang IMO. IF you would put a Marauder in there then why not mention an 96 Impala SS with the 396 ?
 

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The MN12 isn't a muscle car, I'll agree with that. But it's no big-bodied Mustang either. Mustang hasn't really changed much since the 70s - whereas the MN12 was more advanced in its construction than the majority of the domestic auto market at its time. Only in the last 10 years have cars started incorporating IRS as a 'standard'.
 

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Yeah "big bodied Mustang" would accurately apply to the 80-88s but the MN12 was a ground up design. When you look at what Ford was trying to emulate with them it becomes fairly clear that old bruting muscle cars were at the very back of the designers/engineers minds. The MN12 was really a way to show that Ford could build a car that actually can match(or come close to) a contemporary BMW or Mercedes within their much more reasonable established price points. Something no domestics (including uber expensive Caddys. Cars that were supposed to compete for high end luxury) at the time seemed to dare try.
 

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I moved this discussion to its own thread since it has taken on a life of it's own.

Great reading guys!

 

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I moved this discussion to its own thread since it has taken on a life of it's own.

Great reading guys!

I didn't know you moved it when I saw it. I was like oh god :facepalm: when did I make this thread?

Good job Mr. Monkey
 

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I didn't know you moved it when I saw it. I was like oh god :facepalm: when did I make this thread?

Good job Mr. Monkey
Thanks.

You made this thread when you started talking about the Mustang. - You just didn't realize it at the time. :tongue:

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It's a damn shame when GM is turning out Vetts AND Camaros, and really fast Cadillacs with the "V" series ... Who'd have ever thought Cadillac would be a performance company :confused:
Seemed inevitable when the generation that thought tailfins, hubcaps, whitewalls and tufted pillow seats were luxurious officially died off lol
Anyway, I think another bearing on the growth of Cadillac as a performance brand was the death of Pontiac. When Pontiac went away all those resources were then redirected to Cadillac.
 

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Eh the V series dated back to when Pontiac was still around, and really their own performance image has largely been the product of marketing and styling more than anything else, particularly from the 80s on. I see Cadillac today more like Buick or Oldsmobile from the 50s/60s.

I think Caddy's venture into performance in the last decade was a conform or die strategy more than anything else. To be taken seriously as a luxury car maker they needed something that could actually compete with the modern luxury car on a capable RWD based chassis.

Now we're talking about GMs lol
 

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Eh the V series dated back to when Pontiac was still around, and really their own performance image has largely been the product of marketing and styling more than anything else, particularly from the 80s on. I see Cadillac today more like Buick or Oldsmobile from the 50s/60s.

I think Caddy's venture into performance in the last decade was a conform or die strategy more than anything else. To be taken seriously as a luxury car maker they needed something that could actually compete with the modern luxury car on a capable RWD based chassis.

Now we're talking about GMs lol
And its too bad because with the Mark VII, Mark VIII, Town Car, Continental, Lincoln was ahead of Cadillac by far. I think when Ford killed the MN12 and DEW98 it made Lincoln uncompetitive at the same time Cadillac is getting the Zeta chassis and all of these performance goodies. Ford cancelling DEW98 was the dumbest thing they could have done. You only have to look so far as Jaguar to see what awesome things could be done on DEW98.

Its interesting to think that there is a little bit of (MN12/DEW98) Thunderbird blood in there...

 
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