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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I'm going to have a bit of time on my hands, now that I'm going back to college :)

Anyway many many moons ago I had two 94 cougars, a v6 & a V8... I loved them however the gaskets & tranny when on the v6. For half of the cost to fix I bought the V8 which I did a lot of engine work on, alas the crank shaft shattered one day(don't ask)... Needless to say I miss my girls...

Getting to the point.... I'm a bit of a Green energy nut, so I'd like to start a new project however I'm a little rusty on my MN12 tech. I'm looking for some suggestions for a MN12 car(cougar, T-bird, MarkVIII) with a decent non-engine aftermarket(suspension, interior, & body parts), somewhat nimble.

Also suggestions for a alternative power plant, I'd like to do diesel ideally....

So any ideas?


*EDIT* I think I should clarify something my minor is somewhat in Engineering... This is more of an fun/school bonus project, I money isn't an problem since I'm still in the idea phase. Not to mention I then have an excuse to get to the salvage yards more often :D
 

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Green? Buy an import. Tbirds were built to go, with class. I'll never substitute my gas guzzlin V8's for the sake of a few tons of emissions in my lifetime. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Green? Buy an import. Tbirds were built to go, with class. I'll never substitute my gas guzzlin V8's for the sake of a few tons of emissions in my lifetime. :)
:D

Import, pfft.. wheres the fun in that if I wanted a green car off the lot, Fusion hybrid or the new SHO easy... I like the V8's but I like efficiency more and the old V8 just don't cut it for me beside it's a project car, and I'm more than willing to get my hands dirty....
 

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IMO the MN-12's have a lot better gas mileage compared to other V8's like Mustangs. Then again the gears and tune probably have a lot to do with that. Between the V6 and V8 I believe the V8 is better on gas. As far as replacing the engine with a diesel or something I don't think that'll be possible or worth it. Unless you really like to waste money and not see any gain until decades later.:rolleyes: If you really want to be green, buy a hybrid, biodiesel, or fully electric car.
 

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Green? Buy an import. Tbirds were built to go, with class. I'll never substitute my gas guzzlin V8's for the sake of a few tons of emissions in my lifetime. :)
I love you man.....

Don't get me wrong, I like the environment, but V8s are becoming a rarity these days, especially in your average car/suv/x-over.

I just don't believe you can get the same power out of anything less.(lets not forget sound, nothing like the sound of a revved up weed eater engine in the imports with coffee can tips)


as for the OP, convert it to electric.
I seen a guy on Discovery who does electric conversions by putting an electric motor in place of a gaser and just hooks it up to the existing tranny.

apparently in most cars it achieves the same if not better acceleration/speed
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Again its seem that the point of my post is being missed or maybe just not understood.... The point is that a "green" power plant can retrofitted into a normal car, I'd like a MN12 just because I love the cars....

As far a power, I'm pretty sure I can do better that a stock SOHC V8(really its not a lot)... Originally I was think of a inline diesel that ford uses over seas with a variable twin turbo setup, but I thought hey maybe some of the forum guys have some better ideas. I could take a v6 put on a flexfuel kit and call it a day but that boring, and probably won't get me a grant for school... ...more so it just doesn't satisfy my inner-engineer.....

Your right the T-birds should go with class, however there is a lot more to class than a brute force gas-guzzling v8... I can do much better than that, and still prove myself on the track....

I thought of electric, but the battery/storage issue is a problem because of the weight ratio... Some have suggested a fly wheel battery, but $$$$$...
 

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As far as green goes the options that I'd consider would be either Diesel or CNG.

If money was not object electric with super capacitors instead of batteries.

But either way I'd like to see a regenerative braking system retrofit. If not for driving the car for at least charging the battery in addition to the alternator. Unless want to use a 10-25HP DC motor for "starter", just to get the car moving.
 

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if you consider 20mpg in town with eight cylinders to be a gas guzzler...then oh well. green energy is about as trust worthy as van jones and like it or not, the industrialized world runs on petrochemicals.
 

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Again its seem that the point of my post is being missed or maybe just not understood.... The point is that a "green" power plant can retrofitted into a normal car, I'd like a MN12 just because I love the cars....

As far a power, I'm pretty sure I can do better that a stock SOHC V8(really its not a lot)...
I don't think it's that they're missing your point.. I think it's that you're missing their's. Most mn12-ers hate to see a good american V8 get cut up for someone's project. In most minds, it's a waste of a good car... now, cutting up a V6 is another story :p
 

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IMO the MN-12's have a lot better gas mileage compared to other V8's like Mustangs.
Say, what?!! How can a Thunderbird that weighs several hundred pounds MORE than a Mustang but that has a virtually identical engine get better fuel economy?!! I've owned two 4.6 liter V-8 Thunderbirds and five V-8 Mustangs (four 5.0 liter V-8's and one 4.6 liter V-8) and the Mustangs ALL got better mileage than the Thunderbirds.

my v8 cougar gets better gas milage than my v6 sable, we always use the cougar for long trips because of that
You have something wrong with your V-6 Sable; I owned a 2004 Sable with the 24-valve DOHC V-6 and it beat my 1997 4.6 liter V-8 Thunderbird by several MPG's!

Dennis
 

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if you consider 20mpg in town with eight cylinders to be a gas guzzler...then oh well. green energy is about as trust worthy as van jones and like it or not, the industrialized world runs on petrochemicals.
What have you done to you car/engine in the way of modifications from stock?

There is NO way in hell a STOCK Thunderbird with a 4.6 liter V-8 is going to get 20 MPG in stop-and-go city traffic! I'm currently laid-off from work and probably do 90% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic right now and my '97 4.6 liter V-8 T-Bird is barely averaging 16 MPG!

Dennis
 

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What have you done to you car/engine in the way of modifications from stock?

There is NO way in hell a STOCK Thunderbird with a 4.6 liter V-8 is going to get 20 MPG in stop-and-go city traffic! I'm currently laid-off from work and probably do 90% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic right now and my '97 4.6 liter V-8 T-Bird is barely averaging 16 MPG!

Dennis

i get 18-20 depending on how i drive. the fact that you are laid off is mutually exclusive to your driving habits.
 

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What have you done to you car/engine in the way of modifications from stock?

There is NO way in hell a STOCK Thunderbird with a 4.6 liter V-8 is going to get 20 MPG in stop-and-go city traffic! I'm currently laid-off from work and probably do 90% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic right now and my '97 4.6 liter V-8 T-Bird is barely averaging 16 MPG!

Dennis
I got around 19-21 MPG about 3 year's back (City Driving) and at the time the bird was bone stock.


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I don't think it's that they're missing your point.. I think it's that you're missing their's. Most mn12-ers hate to see a good american V8 get cut up for someone's project. In most minds, it's a waste of a good car... now, cutting up a V6 is another story :p
In this case I'd rather have a car with out an engine, I wont want to break something that isn't broking(beside it saves time)... I want to create an alternative power plant in a good car.... and a V6 is preferred(at least I can slap a flexfuel kit on it until I'm ready to do heavy work on it...

I killed my v8 when I broke the crankshaft, honestly it sucked(and rather upsetting) to send it off to the junkyard knowing that only the engine & not the car was beyond repair.... The point is to revive something and breathe new live in to it, sure a new motor is great and all... but I'm tired of hear American cars sucks, I want to prove that we can do more with less.... at most I figure 10g's tops for the project if which I'm successful will pay for itself in college merit at Rutgers University.....

Help me breathe new live into American innovation... (wonder if I can sell that to obama to use)
 

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Again its seem that the point of my post is being missed or maybe just not understood.... The point is that a "green" power plant can retrofitted into a normal car, I'd like a MN12 just because I love the cars....

As far a power, I'm pretty sure I can do better that a stock SOHC V8(really its not a lot)... Originally I was think of a inline diesel that ford uses over seas with a variable twin turbo setup, but I thought hey maybe some of the forum guys have some better ideas. I could take a v6 put on a flexfuel kit and call it a day but that boring, and probably won't get me a grant for school... ...more so it just doesn't satisfy my inner-engineer.....

Your right the T-birds should go with class, however there is a lot more to class than a brute force gas-guzzling v8... I can do much better than that, and still prove myself on the track....

I thought of electric, but the battery/storage issue is a problem because of the weight ratio... Some have suggested a fly wheel battery, but $$$$$...
what about regenerative braking that charges your batteries every time you brake?
 

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i had a 4cyl that used a lot of gas too on the highway, it seems to me when your cruising above 65mph the 4cyl and 6cyl has to work so hard that the gas milage doubles, but when your cruising in a v-8 above 65mph its not really working that hard its just cruising along like its nothing to it
 

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Say, what?!! How can a Thunderbird that weighs several hundred pounds MORE than a Mustang but that has a virtually identical engine get better fuel economy?!! I've owned two 4.6 liter V-8 Thunderbirds and five V-8 Mustangs (four 5.0 liter V-8's and one 4.6 liter V-8) and the Mustangs ALL got better mileage than the Thunderbirds.
Dennis
I'm not trying to start a fight but how about looking it up! I just did and the difference isn't by much but 2 miles per gallons is a big difference in the long run. V8 T-Bird (17 city 24 highway), V8 Mustang (15 city 23 highway) but that's with a manual and manuals get better mileage. The numbers are a bit different depending on which site you go to but when it comes down to it a V8 automatic with small gears will have better mileage compared to a V8 automatic with larger gears and is tuned to be more aggressive. I bet your Mustangs must have been taken care of better than your T-Birds.
 

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What have you done to you car/engine in the way of modifications from stock?

There is NO way in hell a STOCK Thunderbird with a 4.6 liter V-8 is going to get 20 MPG in stop-and-go city traffic! I'm currently laid-off from work and probably do 90% of my driving in stop-and-go city traffic right now and my '97 4.6 liter V-8 T-Bird is barely averaging 16 MPG!

Dennis
My Tbird when it was stock got 20mpg city,and 22-23 highway. After I had the PCM retuned, it regularly got 25-26 on the highway,but still got 20mpg the rest of the time. It's heavily modified now,and gets 20mpg on the highway,and 15-16 in town.
JL
 

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I'm not trying to start a fight but how about looking it up! I just did and the difference isn't by much but 2 miles per gallons is a big difference in the long run. V8 T-Bird (17 city 24 highway), V8 Mustang (15 city 23 highway) but that's with a manual and manuals get better mileage. The numbers are a bit different depending on which site you go to but when it comes down to it a V8 automatic with small gears will have better mileage compared to a V8 automatic with larger gears and is tuned to be more aggressive. I bet your Mustangs must have been taken care of better than your T-Birds.
You are listing the old EPA numbers for the V8 MN12 and the new revised numbers (which are lower) for the mustangs. The MN12 4.6's new numbers are 15/23 or 15/23 depends on the year and 15/22 for the 5.0. Also my mustang returns much better city numbers and similar highway numbers to my cougar the big difference being my stang has over 100hp on the cat. In my experience I've found the highway numbers are very similar to the mustangs probably due to the better aerodynamics of the MN12's making up for its extra weight but the lighter mustangs are better in around town city/suburban driving.

Plus for everyone saying they get 20 mpg city driving I can see that for suburban stuff but no way in hell for stop and go real city driving you'll be lucky to see 17.
 
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