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Discussion Starter #1
Trans Running Hot, Not Shifting

Just joined your forum after reading Jerry’s publication on the J-MOD by way of the Mark viii.org that I’ve been with for the last year & half - I’m having trouble with the Tranny on my 95 Mark http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/HBbill/_MG_0983.jpg
& could not get a conclusive answer from the other guys on what the problem might be – After reading through as much as I could on the strings on your forum covering this Trans, I find your group seems to know a lot more about the 4R70W trans issues. I wanted to get as much info as I could before asking for help.
Here’s what I’m faced with; a few months back, I was running late for an appointment & got on the freeway doing 80 – 90 mph for about 40 mi., when I got off & stopped at the signal, then started off again I couldn’t get out of 1st. gear, then I tried shifting manually & got it to shift from 1st. to 2nd. & then “D”, but would only engage sometimes – did this all the way to client location. After about an hour, got back into the car & it shifted fine, but I didn’t want to return on the freeway, so I took side streets all the way back, took over an hour, but no problem with trans shifting – Drove it the next day, about 7 mi. with no problem, but after shutting off the engine & re-starting it about 10 min. later I had the same problem again, so I manually shifted all the way back home then immediately put the Scanner on it & came up with the DTC Code 636, “Transmission Fluid Temperature Hotter that Expected” – I thought maybe the 1-2 Shift Accumulator spring finally broke & would need the upgrade I’ve been reading about. I didn’t want to drive it any more & decided to tear into the trans even though I’ve ever worked on an automatic transmission before, but there’s a first time for everything.
So I did the J-MOD, followed everybody’s instructions that had done this before, drained the pan, VB, TC, fluid lines & radiator for a week to make sure all old fluid was gone, then followed through with Brake Cleaner & blow it all out – when I took out the 1-2 Accumulator, I found that it had already been upgraded, the piston was right, but the 2 springs were “white” & not the upper (light blue) & lower (purple) springs that you would get from the dealer (see photo)
http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/HBbill/1-2Accumulator.jpg
I went ahead & replaced both the 1-2 & 2-3 Accumulator pistons & springs, TCC & TFT sensors, cleaned out & tested continuity on the SS1/SS2 solenoid & put it back in. Added a plate type fluid cooler in front, but not directly on the condenser & used 5/16” compression fittings on the fluid lines, not 3/8” rubber tubing as suggested, put the ’96 pan with dimple & rubber gasket, but some place along the line I didn’t notice the ’96 filter with the snorkel should have been used, still have the ’95 filter, then filled up on Merc V progressively – took it out for a ride & it felt great, nice chirp shifts on all gears, stopped 6 mi. down the road to pick up some supplies (10 min.), then took off again & I was right back to square one, could not shift out of 1st. while in “D”, except to shift in manual. I let the engine/trans cool off for 2 hours, then got on my way & it shifted normally all the way home?
After reading all the stuff in your forum, I see I’ve mistreated my trans by doing WOT while in “OD” & shifting through the gears in manual too much, not completely draining fluid from TC on fluid changes as well & not using Merc V.
So, with this info from your forum, I’m thinking I should have replaced the EPC & the MLPS or maybe it’s the “Direct Clutch”, “Roller Clutch Sun Gear or maybe I just fried the whole thing & need to rebuild it? BUT why would it work fine when it’s cold & not work only when I re-start it after it warms up? WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
 

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I think I would install a real trans temp qauge and see what the heck is going on with the fluid temp.

What did you use instead of Mercon V?
 

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Nice looking car! :thumbsup:

Something unusual is going on in that tranny to make the fluid heat up so much. If I was to guess, I would think something is sticking in the valve body. A Sonnax Sure-Cure Kit should cure any problem there: http://www.sonnax.com/product-lines/transmission/parts/1448

BUT, before you run out and buy one, are you sure you don't feel any slipping? Does your tach seem to rev sometimes when it shouldn't? That would suggest the EPC solenoid; I've been told to use the 5.4L EPC like here: http://transpartsdirect.com/4r70w-connector-xl3p-7g383-p-16975.html?osCsid=dpm48l8gljvk289tie3c76ln34

I'm no tranny expert and you might want to bring it to a tranny expert and have them test drive it. Darrin's idea is a decent one so you can monitor what your tranny oil temp is doing during the times you have your 'issue'. Please keep us informed as you make progress solving your problem!

Other Possible Problems:
I've also seen people with a bad VSS sensor on the back of the tranny have trouble shifting.
I've read ppl here that had bad MLPS sensors having shift issues.
Could be bad connection at electrical plug.
Could be bad shift solenoids (it's been said they always stick).
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Trans Running Hot - Not Shifting

I think I would install a real trans temp qauge and see what the heck is going on with the fluid temp.

What did you use instead of Mercon V?
Yeah, good idea to install temp gauge, but I'll have to mount it in the engine bay, no time to route it into the cockpit.
I usually had JiffyLube do trans tune up & looks like they used Penz multi-vehicle ATF - problem with them is they only suck out fluid through trans fill tube & they do not drop pan nor change filter - they say the whole system gets flushed out, but I doubt it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Trans Running Hot - Not Shifting

Thank NetKeym
Everything runs fine, engine & trans while first starting off, even after it warms up. the problem occurs after I shut it down & re-start & go again.
The EPC is one of the solenoids I didn't replace when I did the J-MOD & I thought I might have to get into trans again & do that - I was going to buy it from RockAuto for $80.00, but what you're showing is $24.00 what a difference?
I When I did the J-MOD, I drained, flushed out, blow out & cleaned EVERYTHING from radiator to trans - the only thing that I was concerned about was when I took out the VB I only found 7 check balls instead of 8. I might have dropped one, but I never did found it, but I put 8 back in.
The Sonnex Kit looks like a good idea, but they only have it for '98 & newer trans, will it work on my '95?
 

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Thank NetKeym
Everything runs fine, engine & trans while first starting off, even after it warms up. the problem occurs after I shut it down & re-start & go again.
The EPC is one of the solenoids I didn't replace when I did the J-MOD & I thought I might have to get into trans again & do that - I was going to buy it from RockAuto for $80.00, but what you're showing is $24.00 what a difference?
I When I did the J-MOD, I drained, flushed out, blow out & cleaned EVERYTHING from radiator to trans - the only thing that I was concerned about was when I took out the VB I only found 7 check balls instead of 8. I might have dropped one, but I never did found it, but I put 8 back in.
The Sonnex Kit looks like a good idea, but they only have it for '98 & newer trans, will it work on my '95?
The Sonnax AODE-SC is the Sure Cure Kit for 1991-95 Transmissions:
http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/SC-AODE-95.pdf
The Sonnax AODE-SC-1 is the Sure Cure Kit for 1996- Transmissions:
http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/SC-AODE-96.pdf

Let us know what you find out! Did you have a reputable tranny shop check it out?
 

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put the ’96 pan with dimple & rubber gasket, but some place along the line I didn’t notice the ’96 filter with the snorkel should have been used, still have the ’95 filter
you will definitely want to install the 96+ filter. running the 95 one shouldn't hurt anything, but you will still have the dry sump under hard cornering issue.

also, if your in a warm part of CA you could completely bypass the radiator heat exchanger. if your cooler you installed is a decent size it should never heat up again. i like my trucoolmax

hopefully nothing is slipping, that's where you real heat is going to come from. if she slides into gear or anything you may have to go deeper then a Jmod >.>
 

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Also, the smaller or higher-stall converter you use, the more heat that is generated (in the TC). Just something to think about. If you use a high-stall converter, you need a good tranny cooler!
 

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I usually had JiffyLube do trans tune up & looks like they used Penz multi-vehicle ATF - problem with them is they only suck out fluid through trans fill tube & they do not drop pan nor change filter - they say the whole system gets flushed out, but I doubt it.
Am I not the only one who sees a problem with this?

OP, how long was this fluid used in your transmission?
 

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Am I not the only one who sees a problem with this?

OP, how long was this fluid used in your transmission?
My boss changes Fords with Multi-ATF and adds the Merc V additive; I personally use only qualified Mercon V fluid in my cars (and it's not cheap).
 

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My boss changes Fords with Multi-ATF and adds the Merc V additive; I personally use only qualified Mercon V fluid in my cars (and it's not cheap).
Okay, but figure the odds Jiffy Lube, of all places, would know to add said additive. Do it right, or don't do it at all, IMHO.
 

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Okay, but figure the odds Jiffy Lube, of all places, would know to add said additive. Do it right, or don't do it at all, IMHO.
I hear ya; I'm not arguing with your point, I'm agreeing with you. I don't care for the way my boss has his shop do it, either! That's why I do my own vehicles and buy my own Merc V.


Did the OP get his issue figured out?
 

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wow, i must have missed that in their somewhere... yeah, you also don't want to mix mercV with dex/merc. my dad did that in his ranger when it blew out a couple of quarts down the highway and it started sliding in and out of gear randomly.

you should definitely drain the TC and drop the pan again, then change that filter with the 96+ and refill with a good MercV. i use Valvoline with out any trouble.

also jiffy lube sucking it out so they don't have to drop the pan and pull the TC drain is lazy to the max... those places are all about getting cars in and out as fast as possible. screw the quality, and knowledgeable techs. get some kids fresh out of high school, without any training whatsoever and hand em a wrench...

i doubt very much that's a flush machine their using. those will get most of the fluid if not all out. but they usually hook up to the heat exchanger lines on the radiator, not down through the filler neck >.> sounds to me like their just sucking out whats in the pan, pumping in a bit of fresh and letting it go.

i would recommend you start taking your car to a reputable local mechanic for lube services, or get a bit dirty every now and then and do it yourself. its actually quite simple with a basic Taiwan ratchet kit from your local walmart.

edit: oh i see, it was in a second reply underneath the first BoT
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Trans Running Hot - Not Shifting

First of all, I’d like to thank all you guys for your time, effort & thought given to this situation. I appreciate it.
Looks like there’s more information I need to give for you to get a clearer understanding of how I’ve gotten to this point.
I bought this car in ’05 from the second owner (90K miles) who bought it from the first owner in ’97 (40K miles) – I asked for maintenance records & they go all the way back to the original owner showing regular maintenance was kept up.
I bought the ’95 Mark to replace my ‘89 T-Bird, but soon found out that this was not Grandpa’s old Lincoln, this was a performance car & I thought there was a lot of potential here.
This is not my daily driver, as I work from home & only need to go to the office once or twice a week (7mi) & half the time I drive my ’93 Silverado, but I do like to take rides on the weekends & open it up, the Mark that is. I’ve put on 50K in the last 7 years, 140K now with no problems to the drive train at all ‘til now. In fact this is the first time I’ve ever had a trans problem, ever.
It wasn’t until I got onto the Mark viii.org forum I ½ years ago that I found out about Jerry’s paper on the 4R70W trans & the need to upgrade the 1-2 & 2-3 pistons & springs & using Merc V. Didn’t do any of that until this problem came about – although I’ve done most of my own mechanical work, on all my cars if I know what the problem is, but always shied away from any automatic trans work – I can do manual – besides, the regular repair manuals don’t cover A/T’s.
I’ve always had A/T “Tune Up’s” once a year & regular oil changes (3K mi) through OilMax, EZ Lube or Jiffy Lube, a job I used to do myself, but have gotten lazy in my old age
Record show that Dextron II ATF or Penz Multi-Vehicle ATF was used since day one, but doubt filter was ever changed & the last time I had fluid changed was at 120K, 20K mi. ago.
Trans is not slipping, Tach is not reving unexpectedly, it shifts great since the J-MOD
When I did the J-MOD, I flushed & cleaned everything, so there is no mixing of old (ATF) & new fluid (MercV) and I added a plate cooler from a Chevy truck.
I don’t know what kind of TC is in there (high stall?), it’s original as far as I know.
Once again, everything runs & shifts fine until I shut down the engine & re-start again, then it will not shift out of 1st., etc. this is on surface streets, 55 mph is the fastest I’ve gotten it, I’m afraid to drive it on the highway, don’t want to do anymore damage than what might be there already.
If the problem is a sensor or solenoid, I’ll replace it, but if it looks like I’ve messed up the clutch/pressure plates, then I’ll just replace the whole trans.
 

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First of all, I’d like to thank all you guys for your time, effort & thought given to this situation. I appreciate it.
Looks like there’s more information I need to give for you to get a clearer understanding of how I’ve gotten to this point.
I bought this car in ’05 from the second owner (90K miles) who bought it from the first owner in ’97 (40K miles) – I asked for maintenance records & they go all the way back to the original owner showing regular maintenance was kept up.
I bought the ’95 Mark to replace my ‘89 T-Bird, but soon found out that this was not Grandpa’s old Lincoln, this was a performance car & I thought there was a lot of potential here.
This is not my daily driver, as I work from home & only need to go to the office once or twice a week (7mi) & half the time I drive my ’93 Silverado, but I do like to take rides on the weekends & open it up, the Mark that is. I’ve put on 50K in the last 7 years, 140K now with no problems to the drive train at all ‘til now. In fact this is the first time I’ve ever had a trans problem, ever.
It wasn’t until I got onto the Mark viii.org forum I ½ years ago that I found out about Jerry’s paper on the 4R70W trans & the need to upgrade the 1-2 & 2-3 pistons & springs & using Merc V. Didn’t do any of that until this problem came about – although I’ve done most of my own mechanical work, on all my cars if I know what the problem is, but always shied away from any automatic trans work – I can do manual – besides, the regular repair manuals don’t cover A/T’s.
I’ve always had A/T “Tune Up’s” once a year & regular oil changes (3K mi) through OilMax, EZ Lube or Jiffy Lube, a job I used to do myself, but have gotten lazy in my old age
Record show that Dextron II ATF or Penz Multi-Vehicle ATF was used since day one, but doubt filter was ever changed & the last time I had fluid changed was at 120K, 20K mi. ago.
Trans is not slipping, Tach is not reving unexpectedly, it shifts great since the J-MOD
When I did the J-MOD, I flushed & cleaned everything, so there is no mixing of old (ATF) & new fluid (MercV) and I added a plate cooler from a Chevy truck.
I don’t know what kind of TC is in there (high stall?), it’s original as far as I know.
Once again, everything runs & shifts fine until I shut down the engine & re-start again, then it will not shift out of 1st., etc. this is on surface streets, 55 mph is the fastest I’ve gotten it, I’m afraid to drive it on the highway, don’t want to do anymore damage than what might be there already.
If the problem is a sensor or solenoid, I’ll replace it, but if it looks like I’ve messed up the clutch/pressure plates, then I’ll just replace the whole trans.
If you're driving around at 55 mph in only one gear, I can pretty much guarantee that you're not in 1st. The 4r70w is designed to incorporate a "limp mode" when something goes wrong that the computer can sense; this limp mode is stuck in 2nd gear. So, I'm willing to bet you are in 2nd gear all the time, not 1st.

That would indicate something wrong in the valve control or your MLPS (the sensor on the side of the tranny). Can you get another MLPS to test?

Judging from all your lengthy replies, you haven't brought it to a reputable tranny shop as I've suggested to you several times in this thread, have you?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi Rick - time is not on my side, right now I'll be out of town for over a week - like I said I've never had a trans problem before & so I don't know of any good shops to take it to. What I've seen around town, these places come & go & I certinly don't want to go to the dealer ($$$$) & not to Aamco - so I'll have to look around or ask some people when I get back.
 

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Hi Rick - time is not on my side, right now I'll be out of town for over a week - like I said I've never had a trans problem before & so I don't know of any good shops to take it to. What I've seen around town, these places come & go & I certinly don't want to go to the dealer ($$$$) & not to Aamco - so I'll have to look around or ask some people when I get back.
I totally understand. Maybe someone on the boards here near you can suggest somebody. If you have to start doing things yourself, do you have a friend that works for an auto parts store? Get an MLPS and try it first - it's easy and doesn't require dropping the pan. The reason I said a friend is if it doesn't fix the problem, you can bring the MLPS back and get your money back.

Heck, even if you don't have a friend, just keep the part clean and if you have to bring it back, don't tell them you installed it! I'm just sayin'.....

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I just happen to have a back up Trans from a '97 Mark. Got this one in case I messed up the J-MOD, seeing I never worked a automatic trans before. So, can I use the MLPS from the '97 on my '95 for this test?
 

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I just happen to have a back up Trans from a '97 Mark. Got this one in case I messed up the J-MOD, seeing I never worked a automatic trans before. So, can I use the MLPS from the '97 on my '95 for this test?
Well, the parts manual lists two different part numbers for the 1995 and 1997. HOWEVER, I put a 1997 Thunderbird transmission in my 1995 Thunderbird and it shifts fine. The only thing I changed is the TCC solenoid inside the tranny because they are different impedances and have to be changed.

Bottom line? I'd try it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well, the parts manual lists two different part numbers for the 1995 and 1997. HOWEVER, I put a 1997 Thunderbird transmission in my 1995 Thunderbird and it shifts fine. The only thing I changed is the TCC solenoid inside the tranny because they are different impedances and have to be changed.

Bottom line? I'd try it.
Checked it out & the MLPS on a '95 has an 8 pin connection & the '97 has 11 pins - so it won't work
 
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