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Awesome for your friend.

Yeah, Florida will be following AZ and TX soon ... if they're not already there.

My wife just got off the phone with her brother who lives in Florida. He says everything down there is open like nothing is wrong. He's even going to the gym. It's crazy! He's crazy!
A friend just told my wife "WTF now means What the Florida."

On options, there are literally dozens if not more systems and strategies. Almost all of them require more active monitoring than I care to give.

Two basic strategies which require research to setup but then the decision on when/if they execute is out of your hands: sell cash covered puts, sell covered calls.

There is a strategy called the wheel which combines the two but again, you will be doing more active trading than I at least am interested in. Any stocks I get assigned I intend to keep for the long haul.
 

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LOL :LOL: ... So true about Florida!

I'm a long term holder as well. I don't have the time for options or day trading.
 

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LOL :LOL: ... So true about Florida!

I'm a long term holder as well. I don't have the time for options or day trading.
I've been investing for a little over 20 years now (bought my first shares at 18 in an IRA that my mom forced me to open) and all of my investments have been purchases I kept long term. I read about options before and always thought of them as speculative tools. This is true; people who buy puts and calls often to it as a force multiplier to make their cash, in exchange for a time limit, control a larger share of assets/shares than they would normally be able to afford.

What changed was when I realized that there's a flipside to the speculation; you can use it as a hedge against future events OR as a way to "commit your money" to an action which you would do so anyway AND get paid for such action. I'm not going to sell naked puts just like I'm not going to borrow money to buy shares on margin or even worse, use margin to buy and sell options in a speculative fashion.

1996-2020: all I did was look at a stock and if I felt they were undervalued, I would buy them. If I felt they were overvalued, I would do nothing except wait. I would only sell shares to buy something I wanted more (like real estate) or to diversify. NOTE: this was only for a small percentage of my investments. 90% was directed using the asset allocation strategy (split % for small, medium, large, overseas, bonds/RE, cash)

2020: Now, I see that if I see something is overvalued, but there's a price I'm willing to pay for that share, I'll look at selling a put. If I have a dog of a stock that's just not worth selling because I don't want to realize the loss, I'll sell a call at my stock price. In both cases, someone is giving me cash now. If things go one way, I keep the cash. If things go the other way, I get the stock at the price I want or I finally breakeven on my stock. Either way, I'm OK with the result. Its a really powerful tool I wish I had discovered years ago. I still have the $5K block of CISCO shares I bought at $60 something bucks/share twenty years ago. I have plowed every CISCO dividend back into stock so I now have more of those shares than I started at a lower average cost of $56 bucks. If I had discovered selling calls sooner, I would have made a few bucks over the years while I waited for the stock price to hit my strike price and my cost basis would have been even lower. THIS is one thing I wish I had learned 20 years ago.
 

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I saw this article last night

NASDAQ going vertical


I have some puts expiring today on the whole market (VTI). Not sure if I will re-up and sell new ones today for 2 months out (depends on the discount I can get)
I wonder if my puts for Aug, Sept, Oct, and Nov will get assigned. Aug has some of my most speculative choices (NKLA, NIO, DKNG, TSLA) -- first two I don't really want to own.
Here's to hoping the casino stays open for another month :)
 

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Discussion Starter #405
I've been investing for a little over 20 years now (bought my first shares at 18 in an IRA that my mom forced me to open)
THIS. This right here is quality importance.

Growing up and even into my early 20s my dad would always tell me to "save your money". I didn't know what that meant other than to stick a portion of whatever money I made into a savings account or "under the bed". I knew about stocks when I was a kid, but to me at the time, that was nothing but boring grown up stuff. When I was in my teens, I knew about stocks and still thought it was stuff that only rich people did. When I was in my early 20s, I knew about stocks but thought you needed lots of cash to get started and I never had loads of cash. It was when I was in my mid 20s when I first heard the phrase "buy low, sell high".

Now that I'm approaching my late 30s, I know that it doesn't take a whole lot of cash to get started. I now know that the hardest part is actually opening an account with a broker followed by linking a bank account, which honestly, isn't that hard. I wish I knew when I was in my late teens that trading stocks is a tool to make a few dollars, and eventually, make you hundreds or even thousands of dollars every quarter if you do it right. I feel that for me to get there, it's too little too late. I know I'll get there, but I know it won't be for many years to come. However, for my kids, it's not too late.

My son at 6yrs old is far too young to understand what the stock market is. My daughter will be turning 10 next month, and I feel she is also too young to also understand what the stock market is. However, I know that I want to expose them to the stock market and begin influencing their adulthood as early as possible. What that age is, I don't know quite yet, but I do know that I want them to know more than I ever did about the stock market before they turn 18. I want to teach them what my dad never taught me. I want to teach them that saving money doesn't necessarily mean just put their money into a savings account or under the mattress. I want to teach them about the power of passive income and that if they buy the right stocks, learn about - and place - both calls and puts, that they won't have to worry as much financially later in life. I want to teach them that it doesn't take a whole lot of money to get started. I want to teach them that it takes less than $100 to get started, and that dollar amount will eventually turn into tens of thousands of dollars. I want to teach them that their sub $100 starting point in entering the stock market will get them further along and have them be better off (financially) in life by the time they reach my age now.
 

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My son at 6yrs old is far too young to understand what the stock market is. My daughter will be turning 10 next month, and I feel she is also too young to also understand what the stock market is. However, I know that I want to expose them to the stock market and begin influencing their adulthood as early as possible. What that age is, I don't know quite yet, but I do know that I want them to know more than I ever did about the stock market before they turn 18. I want to teach them what my dad never taught me. I want to teach them that saving money doesn't necessarily mean just put their money into a savings account or under the mattress. I want to teach them about the power of passive income and that if they buy the right stocks, learn about - and place - both calls and puts, that they won't have to worry as much financially later in life. I want to teach them that it doesn't take a whole lot of money to get started. I want to teach them that it takes less than $100 to get started, and that dollar amount will eventually turn into tens of thousands of dollars. I want to teach them that their sub $100 starting point in entering the stock market will get them further along and have them be better off (financially) in life by the time they reach my age now.
My mom is an accountant. Yeah. that helped. She couldn't help me with my engineering homework but she certainly drilled this concept into my mind.

1) With my son, I plan to go down the route that my parents did with me: They were quite open about their financial situation. It baffled me into my 20s and 30s and even now (as some of them have to start assisting their parents with managing their finances - not necessarily writing checks) that they really have no idea of the financial state of their parents. My parents were quite clear and it helped to make a decision about where I would go to college and what i could do within the financial constraints of my fam. Telling your kids "study hard, get into college, and we'll find a way to pay for it -- if you really can't -- is IMO a recipe for mistrust and disappointment).

2) You know, if your kids have income that is reported to the IRS, they can open up their own IRA. I started working at 16 (first job was fixing computers for a mom and pop shop) so I had enough income. My mom forced me to max the IRA -- going to far in the first year or two to actually write me the check if necessary. The law says that if they report $3K earnings, you as parents can contribute a matching amount to max out the annual contribution of $6K. They can open a custodial IRA acct and convert it to a ROTH when they turn 18 by paying taxes on that. Having them earn $3K at the market rate and paying taxes on that income could shelter their earnings for the future.


NOTE: If you are worried about too much savings will affect their financial aid status for college, this article specifically says that RETIREMENT accts of both the parents and children are specifically excluded from calculations. Their play money robin hood acct will get boned to the tune of 50c for every $1 earned.
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TSLA peaking at $1678. Incredible. That means someone BOUGHT shares at that price.

$6B in revenue; $428M of that was from selling EV credits

90,650 vehicles sold. Subtracting out the EV credits
Average price $61,467

TSLA stock price growth from April 15th to July 23rd
$1586.63 - $729.83 = $856.80 *

TSLA Market cap growth = $291.4B - $129.1B = ~$162.3B

Market cap growth per every vehicle sold in Q2 (roughly) = $1,790,402
According to "market logic" every added vehicle increases the companies future value by this amount.


PS. Noone is getting assigned any puts with strike prices <$800 any time soon ;)
 

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I bet Ron is giddy right now!

Remember though Gunn. Tesla makes money in more ways than just selling vehicles. They also sell their carbon credits to other companies like FCA (or whatever they call themselves now).


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I bet Ron is giddy right now!

Remember though Gunn. Tesla makes money in more ways than just selling vehicles. They also sell their carbon credits to other companies like FCA (or whatever they call themselves now).


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You are repeating yourself. Selling the credits are already accounted for in their $6B revenue and that's tied to a) govt regulation establishing credits as something of value and b) actual production of cars which are still 1.5x the average price of a car in the US ($37K today) . Yes, they sell other things but they aren't materially contributing to the bottom line right now.

How much of a premium are you willing to pay for the potential of future revenue?

I'm a good candidate for solar b/c quite frankly, $15-20K is a rounding error on the price of my home and I'll probably put panels in when I finally have my roof redone (its on borrowed time now). A friend of mine lives in Boise and when I asked him why he didn't put in solar when he replaced his roof and he said that its hard to justify putting 10% of the value of his home on top of his house. There are far more houses in America <$400K than >$1M.
 

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Yeah, I'm very happy that I bought back into TSLA back in March. I'm kicking myself for not buying many, many more shares over the years. I've kind of had my eye on TSLA for quite some time. I even bought some shares back in 2016 for less than $200 ... of course I sold it after it went up just a little. Ug!

I certainly wouldn't buy at this price. I'd look for a 50% retracement again. So this time ~ $750 to $850 instead of the $400 to $500 we discussed previously.

Overall TSLA will continue to gain market share as their lead and advantage in batteries and AI continue to push them ahead. As they are continuing to build new factories around the world their production numbers will continue to climb. I also expect their vehicle prices to drop in the coming years as the economies of scale continue to benefit them.

As was discussed previously, Tesla isn't "just" a car manufacturer. True, the other things they sell are not meaningfully contributing to the bottom line - yet. They are an industry status quo disruptor.

I'm also considering TSLA solar and a power pack for our house may be in the next year or two. Our roof is nearing end of life as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #411
I would love to put solar on my house, but the cost-benefit for me just isn't there for me. During summer months I pay an average of $170/mo in electricity and an average of $65/mo during the cold months. Having a flat bill of $120/mo (ballpark) to lease / finance solar panels just doesn't make economical sense for my house.

I heavily considered doing this after I got my new roof put on a few years ago, but after talking to a couple solar panel companies, it just doesn't make sense financially for me.
 

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I would love to put solar on my house, but the cost-benefit for me just isn't there for me. During summer months I pay an average of $170/mo in electricity and an average of $65/mo during the cold months. Having a flat bill of $120/mo (ballpark) to lease / finance solar panels just doesn't make economical sense for my house.

I heavily considered doing this after I got my new roof put on a few years ago, but after talking to a couple solar panel companies, it just doesn't make sense financially for me.
Q: So how many folks, nationwide, are more like you versus like me who wouldn't do it entirely for the cost savings reasons?
How big does this make the near/medium term market for your darling meme stock?

With two adults working from home, my electricity bill during this pandemic has only climbed to $60/mo. This is in a large part because we have a small house (probably smaller than some of your garages) and we don't have A/C (because SF). Realistically, we would have a small solar system (6.8KWH day for 100% coverage, ~230 KWH per month). I believe that would be an ~$8K system (4.08kW panels for 16-21KWH generation/day) is more than enough.
 

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Q: So how many folks, nationwide, are more like you versus like me who wouldn't do it entirely for the cost savings reasons?
How big does this make the near/medium term market for your darling meme stock?

With two adults working from home, my electricity bill during this pandemic has only climbed to $60/mo. This is in a large part because we have a small house (probably smaller than some of your garages) and we don't have A/C (because SF). Realistically, we would have a small solar system (6.8KWH day for 100% coverage, ~230 KWH per month). I believe that would be an ~$8K system (4.08kW panels for 16-21KWH generation/day) is more than enough.
Darling meme stock?

Anyway, Wow! Now, that's a great - low rate - electric bill! We run the AC (x two units) nonstop this time of year. It's hot as hell in the South! We're looking at 90+ degree days from now until early September.

Our annual average monthly electric bill runs $114 to $121 a month with a summer average of $153 to $156 a month. Not bad considering the builder grade insulation the house has. I actually went through the attic several years ago and doubled to R60 the minimum code construction R30 that the builder installed.
 

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Darling meme stock?

Anyway, Wow! Now, that's a great - low rate - electric bill! We run the AC (x two units) nonstop this time of year. It's hot as hell in the South! We're looking at 90+ degree days from now until early September.

Our annual average monthly electric bill runs $114 to $121 a month with a summer average of $153 to $156 a month. Not bad considering the builder grade insulation the house has. I actually went through the attic several years ago and doubled to R60 the minimum code construction R30 that the builder installed.
I totally believe your bill. It sounds really good compared to my friends in TX w/ their 4-5K foot homes.
 

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Discussion Starter #415
Q: So how many folks, nationwide, are more like you versus like me who wouldn't do it entirely for the cost savings reasons?
How big does this make the near/medium term market for your darling meme stock?

With two adults working from home, my electricity bill during this pandemic has only climbed to $60/mo. This is in a large part because we have a small house (probably smaller than some of your garages) and we don't have A/C (because SF). Realistically, we would have a small solar system (6.8KWH day for 100% coverage, ~230 KWH per month). I believe that would be an ~$8K system (4.08kW panels for 16-21KWH generation/day) is more than enough.
IMO, more people switch to solar for cost savings over environmental reasons. I mean if you're paying $100/mo (average) for electricity and get solar for $140/mo, would you really want to spend more?

At home we have the AC blasting at 73 24/7 at my house right now during summer, we use 170KWH/mo. We were using more before I made other energy efficiency upgrades to my home (insulate walls, new roof, new HVAC, etc.), so I'd rather spend the money to complete my energy efficiency upgrades first before moving over to solar. Spending ~$700/room in drywall, insulation, double panned window(s), and other materials per room is far cheaper than dumping $20k+ on solar panels. Once my house is completely modernized (built in 1960) I estimate my summer KWH usage will drop to 155KWH (+/- 5KWH).
 

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IMO, more people switch to solar for cost savings over environmental reasons. I mean if you're paying $100/mo (average) for electricity and get solar for $140/mo, would you really want to spend more?

At home we have the AC blasting at 73 24/7 at my house right now during summer, we use 170KWH/mo. We were using more before I made other energy efficiency upgrades to my home (insulate walls, new roof, new HVAC, etc.), so I'd rather spend the money to complete my energy efficiency upgrades first before moving over to solar. Spending ~$700/room in drywall, insulation, double panned window(s), and other materials per room is far cheaper than dumping $20k+ on solar panels. Once my house is completely modernized (built in 1960) I estimate my summer KWH usage will drop to 155KWH (+/- 5KWH).
1) Potentially.
- The delta wouldn't be 40%. I wouldn't finance it so it would be more like prepurchasing electricity up front and rolling it into my home equity. You ever read about how a bathroom remodel ads "$XX to your homes value"? Adding solar is similar in certain locales.
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On average, solar panels raise a home’s value by 4.1% across the U.S., according to a new Zillow analysis of homes across the country— that’s a boost of $9,274 on a $226,300 home, according to the study.
Of the metropolitan areas included in the analysis , homeowners who stand to gain the most from solar panel installation include those New York (5.4%, or a $23,989 premium on a $440,400 home), San Francisco (4.4%, or a $41,658 premium on a $955,200 home) and Orlando, Fla., (4.6%, or a $10,994 premium on a $368,300 home), according to the study.


- Why do people drive hybrid cars when the cost premium doesn't necessarily justify the MPG savings at the pump unless you look at a longer timeframe? Or buy carbon offsets for flights? Most people dont but I think solar is the same deal here. Noone will know if you opt for renewable electricity instead of the baseline PGE rate but you get "warm fuzzies"

- Some cynical people would say adding solar is a form of virtue signalling. I'd say that Priuses a few years ago in the Bay Area or Teslas now would be similar.

- I expect power generation costs to rise steadily along with everything else. Solar is a way to "lock in" a certain price structure.

2) You are right: increasing efficiency will give you more bang for the buck. My home is from 1927. The walls are thick oldschool plaster but with single pane windows over half of my house, it's definitely not the most efficient so your KWH consumption being less than mine with A/C 24/7 doesn't entirely surprise me.
 

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Thanks for the linked stats on increased value due to adding solar. I was curious about those numbers.

I haven't tracked my KWH usage. I could look through my old power statements. I normally just track the amount paid.
 

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Well, isn't this a bit shocking

US GDP shrank by 9.5% in Q2-2020 compared to Q2-2019. Rate of drop is a stunning -32.9%



Now please explain today's reaction. The market really doesn't care. Yeah, I know the money printer is still going.

39007
 

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Oh, yeah, the money printer is wide open and burning through the overtime!

THIS is not the printer that I'm worried about.
While I think that $1200/yr should go to ALL americans and not those making <$75K/yr, I'm still okay with it. I would argue that most families are racking up additional bills that would dwarf the $1200 bucks on offer here -- and will do so going into the fall. Those of us fortunate to still have jobs don't have as much of an existential threat as those who have lost their jobs so it's an inconvenience/setback vs a potential life-changing event (aka can't make rent or pay for food).

What is now interesting is the PPP program proposal on both sides eliminates the need for a 75% payroll requirement.
At best, this might benefit me personally for a few $K if I can justify it (still on the fence) but I can see this being a wide open truck to drive in an collect your chunk of the $130-190B on tap.
 
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