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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm about to buy a 96 mark viii engine, but if this PI engine is cheaper to install I would like it is and where I can get it from.
 

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ill be nice to the newbie, if you do a search on the board youll find the answer

99+ mustang
01+ crown vic and most other 4.6L SHOC
02+ explorer
 

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i believe PI actually stand for "performance improved"
and its the truth! they are much much better engines than our lousy 4. 6's. OURS SUCK

one and ONLY one big difference is the heads. the heads on these engines are called PI heads and they really up our horsepower. if you cant afford an engine or dont have an engine lift or somthin, well you can do a head swap. its alot of work tho, and i would suggest you get a new engine if you have high mileage.

see vic's post for the list of what engines are pi engines


ask away if you have any more questions. any at all
 

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You'll find a lot more info about this subject by searching than by what I am about to say, but oh well. Here are some general differences:

Compression ratio is 9.3:1 in PI engines, it is 9:1 in Non-PI engines.

All pre-'99 4.6L engines are Non-PI.

NPI cams have the following specs:

Intake lift: .466", Duration: 184 deg. @ .050"
Exhaust lift: .466", Duration: 196 deg. @ .050"

PI Cams have the same duration, but the lift is increased to .510"/.530".

As far as the Mark engine vs. a PI engine, you can find either engine for between $800-1500 on Greenleafauto.com, but the PI engines will tend to have lower miles as they have only been out since '99. My '02 Explorer motor I got for $1100 with 1,000 miles on it. The Mark engine is generally speaking more work to put in than the PI engine, but it depends on what you want.
 

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Just for us to totally understand, why dont you tell us your goal with swapping in the new engine. Drag race machine? Just some nice power for everyday driving? etc.?

Some people like the Mark VIII DOHC engines. They are great. They can be a bit expensive to install, but if you are doing it yourself it shouldnt be too bad. There is a tech article about swapping a DOHC engine in. Its not very detailed but it tells what you will need; Wire harness, etc.

A PI engine can be had for sometimes the same as a MarkVIII engine and in almost all the time cheaper then a Cobra DOHC engine. These PI engines usually put out 240-260 HP. One of the newer crazes on the PI engine swaps is the 2002 Explorere 4.6 engine swap. For some reason, only in 02 the explorer got a all aluminum block instead of all the other 4.6 SOHC engines out there that have the cast iron block. The Cobra was the only engine to have a aluminum one before that. Also the great thing is that the 02 engine bolts up pretty nicely. A good place to get these engines is from a company called Greenleaf. Do a search on the forums or online for them. They have them for fairly cheap ($1095-1500 shipped) and from different locations across the country. They can be made stronger and faster with many different parts on the market now a days. It all depends what your goal is.

There are probably less people with the DOHC swap then there is with a PI swap, but the DOHC swap is still a good swap to do depending what you want. If you are doing a MarkVIII engine swap see if you can get the Torque Converter too. The MarkVIII ones are better then ours.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Well Shawn40th my goal is a street/strip car, but my trans has been giving me trouble as of lately ( drive train; hesitating while hard accelerating.).I found a trans but it comes as a combo with the engine. I figured I'm getting the trans, TC, flex plate, and 4v engine for the price that it would cost to have my trans rebuilt.

Over the winter mods was a S/C and a drive shaft, but because of the trans there 2004/2005 over the winter mods. Still future mods thow.
 

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If you can get it all in one package and you have someone willing to install it, or yourself, then go for it. But with this tranny, don't put the B&M shift kits in it. Look at the tech articles in the tranny section. The third one down is a different one that is highly recommended here. It uses OEM ford parts (mostly updated parts) and some minor drilling of the plate and you are all set with a better shift kit then any off the shelf company can provide. If you must use a kit that you can purchase I have heard that the TransGo is better then the B&M in our case. I am not knocking B&M's stuff, they do make awesome parts, just not the shift kits for our tranny. Dennis at www.reinhartautomotive.com also sells a built up ("bullet proof") tranny for the tbirds if you are looking for something that can handle a ton of power. The MarkVIII one can be made even stronger down the road if need be too.

Also something to look for would be to get rid of the chip you have. Through it on ebay or something. Then purchase one from one of the following:
- www.reinhartautomotive.com
- www.apten-us.com
- www.fordchip.com
- www.rffperformance.com
They all use the same program for the chips and its the best bang for the buck in any mod for our cars. Especially if you are getting a different engine put in. One of these guys should have a program for that engine. You might need a chip programmed for that engine in that car to even get it running the way it should, although I havent done the swap so I dont know for sure.

How many miles are on the engine and tranny? I would get one with too many miles, although the engines are real strong and you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Over all it's a good choice for an engine providing you get it from a decent place. All the people I know of that have swapped those engines haven't had any major problems from it. I would look into a search with the button up top on the right for "DOHC swap" or something like that. You might get more details on what you need. And in most cases you will also find people that have done it and can give you more info.

Well I think thats enough info for now. Let us know what you decide to go with and how it comes out.

-Shawn
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I desided to get the explorer engine. From all the post that I have read it is a much easer swap, not to mention the low miles and low cost ($1200 bucks Greenleaf).

Over the winter I'm going to install some higher lift cams, headers,and a few other things. That will give me plenty of time to get everthing I need to do the swap and get the bird drivetrain ready for the added horses.

I'm tring for 350-400hp. The engine in her now runs strong an shows no signs of quiting so there is on hurry. I just don't see myself putting that amount of money in a engine that has 130,000k mile on it.

Oh, the trans problems that I'm having are because a bold TC and my chip is compatable with the upgrades. A new TC, flex plate, and chip problem solved.

I'll keep yall posted. Thanks for the info.

P.S.
I'f yall don,t here from me I'm dead, because my wife found out that I dipped into our savings for car parts.
 

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You should stand up to your wife and say "Woman, I bought parts for the car!"

Then run a few steps, then duck, then run again!

She will get over it, just expect to sleep on the couch or the garage for awhile!
 

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I'f yall don,t here from me I'm dead, because my wife found out that I dipped into our savings for car parts.
:uppoint:
 

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i thought the only problem with the dohc swap was computer related.....but the explorer swap the block just bolts "right" up...and doesnt need a new comp?
 

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Shawn40th said:
One of the newer crazes on the PI engine swaps is the 2002 Explorere 4.6 engine swap. For some reason, only in 02 the explorer got a all aluminum block instead of all the other 4.6 SOHC engines out there that have the cast iron block. The Cobra was the only engine to have a aluminum one before that.



So you are say Only the '02 got an all aluminum block, not '03 or '04 ??
Just curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You need 96-97 fuel lines, fuel rail, and the throttle cable. You will all so need a gasket set, because you will have to transfer parts from your old engine.

The reason I chose the explorer engine is because of the low mile it has compared to the 30,000k "claimed" to be on the dohc.

I did stand up to her this summer when I bought my Titan Monster Truck and again when I came home with the Hyper 7 not including the engines and hopup part for these and my other R/C cars.

Garage and cot, here I come. Anyone has a karosene heater I can buy.It's cold here.
 

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Shawn40th said:
One of the newer crazes on the PI engine swaps ...
Another way to go is to get a '96-'97 intake manifold and Renegade PnP NPI heads and PI cams. It's a lot easier and, depending on what parts you put in the heads, probably cheaper.

As for results, I've got a friend down here with a PI bird (non-PnP).. all our other mods are pretty much equal... I'm running high 13's and he's low 14's...

And about the trans... one of the only differences between my '96 and my buddy's PI bird is he's got a stock J-mod trans and I have a Reinhart bullet-proof... he feels that the stock trans is definately hurting him.... I can run street slicks and he can't (trans can't handle them)... I make up over .15 of the difference in the dial-in in my 60' times.

Soon my buddy's going extrude-honed Bullitt intake and I'm going PnP SVO, so the battle will continue on another level....

When my buddy upgrades his trans and PnP's his heads, it'll probably be a different story, but it'll still be close, and I didn't have to do the engine swap thing, just bolt ons...

By the way, before I did the PnP, I ran a couple of other PI Birds in this area and with my higher performance drive train mods, I was consistently faster than them, too. Seems like my 3.73 differential and high stall converter easily trumped the better flowing heads and higher compression. And if SC is the next step, lower compression is your friend.

Based on my experience and what I've seen and heard, just dropping a PI engine to repalce an NPI is not necessarily the magic, cheapest, easiest, one-step way to high performance in the MN12's.

In the case of the '94-'95's a real cheap way to get 20rwhp is to pick up a pair of stock '96-'98 heads (probably under $100) and a '96-'97 t-bird upgraded, aluminum crossover, intake manifold (cheap) and bolt em on.......
 

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JoeyICU said:
i thought the only problem with the dohc swap was computer related.....but the explorer swap the block just bolts "right" up...and doesnt need a new comp?
A new computer is not necessary.
 

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96 GoldBird said:
Another way to go is to get a '96-'97 intake manifold and Renegade PnP NPI heads and PI cams. It's a lot easier and, depending on what parts you put in the heads, probably cheaper.
Why does it have to be "Renegade" heads? How much do they charge to get that killer flow? I'm planning on getting some ported locally.
As for results, I've got a friend down here with a PI bird (non-PnP).. all our other mods are pretty much equal... I'm running high 13's and he's low 14's...
Impressive, but what would it take to get into the low 13's and high 12's naturally aspirated? Ported NPI and PI heads still don't flow worth a shiite compared to even stock 1960's Chevy heads from the factory. I wanted to get these "SVO" heads that someone here was using, but then I saw the dammmmm price. :beek:

SOOOO, can I get bigger valves in the '96-'97 heads? What size? I plan on using Comp Cams, preferably ones with .550" lift.
Soon my buddy's going extrude-honed Bullitt intake and I'm going PnP SVO, so the battle will continue on another level....
Where do you get SVO intakes in the first place? Do you have a part number?
I didn't have to do the engine swap thing, just bolt ons...
That's the route I'm following, don't know if that will change later though.
And if SC is the next step, lower compression is your friend.

In the case of the '94-'95's a real cheap way to get 20rwhp is to pick up a pair of stock '96-'98 heads (probably under $100) and a '96-'97 t-bird upgraded, aluminum crossover, intake manifold (cheap) and bolt em on.......
Thanks for the info. Great post! :thumbsup:
 

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4point6r0x0rz said:
Why does it have to be "Renegade" heads? How much do they charge to get that killer flow?
Renegade has been working on and refining the flow numbers on our NPI heads for quite awhile and has it down... He does other heads, also, but he went on a mission with the NPI's to get the most out of them, and succeeded. For current prices you would have to check with him. It may have changed since he did mine. My understanding is that parts prices went up.

I had a set fully massaged with enlarged valves, and all the top-of-the-line stainless hardware, compcam springs, etc. for around $2000 including core charge and delivery. Price would vary depending on what hardware you wanted... he can get and install the compcam cams also....

He told me yesterday that he is starting an NPI run right now. I'm not sure if they are all spoken for yet.
what would it take to get into the low 13's and high 12's naturally aspirated?
I can't tell you yet, but hopefully in a month or so, I'll know. I can tell you that track times are not just hp and tq dependent. Drivetrain, tires, weather, etc. play a big part.

There are guys faster than me N/A, you'll need to ask them how they do it....
SOOOO, can I get bigger valves in the '96-'97 heads? What size?
Check with Renegade, I don't have the numbers off-hand.
I plan on using a Comp Cam, preferably one with .550" lift.

The .550" lift are for the PI heads... NPI's have spring issues over .525" as they are normally set up.. but check with Renegade, he might be able to set you up with the cam you want.
 

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i think 12 n/a is doable....but definitly not with all that pork on our cars.....i tohught the 96-97 npi heads could handle the .550 lift?
 

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JoeyICU said:
i tohught the 96-97 npi heads could handle the .550 lift?
Pehaps that is true, but not the way Jim set mine up... max for me is .525".. At the time, I was putting stock Ford PI cams in, so the "extra" lift was not necessary.. If you make him aware that is what you want, he may be able to accommodate.

In their product description Compcams makes it very clear that the .550" lift is for the PI heads. The fine print explains that accommodations have to be made for NPI's

.
 

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96 GoldBird said:
In their product description Compcams makes it very clear that the .550" lift is for the PI heads. The fine print explains that accommodations have to be made for NPI's.
Here is the Comp Cams page for the mod motors:

Competition Cams - Modular 4.6 and 5.4L Engines

To use the .550" lift cams in the NPI heads, here is what their notation says:
*Note: Can also be used in the Pre 99 (P.I.) Heads with retainer to guide clearance modifications and Comp Cams® valve springs.
 
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