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Discussion Starter #1
I found these on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350291113575&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And These : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360208805945&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Would anyone Recommend Either one or Recommend Not getting them.

Is there any other kits out there??

I see SCP has some individual parts but if I'd buy them individually id buy Moog or something!!

How bout performance ones like tubular or something ???

Thanks for all the help!!!
 

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Have heard bad story's about E-Bay suspension parts, I think it would be best to stay away from them and put the money in some good OEM parts. Just my 2 cents
 

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Napa "Master Ride" suspension parts

FWIW, I replaced both upper ball joints (the came as entire upper control arms) from Napa for about $60 per side, within 2 months the passenger side was squawking like before I changed them. On the positive side, I didn't call Napa for about 4 months cause I figured they weren't gonna replace them but I was wrong. Napa said bring it in, we'll give you a new one. Not bad considering they are over 6 months on the car now; of course, if I'd read the warranty part, they're guaranteed for a year - DOH!

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=MRC10764_0186298555&An=599001+101995+50026+2026030
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have been having alot of problems with Napa parts lately. "Nascar Select Orbital" Batteries went through 2 in 6 weeks made em give me a full refund and bought a Optima.(after I proved My charging system was up to par) MY beamer has a vacuum controled fuel regulator. 3 bad before one worked. Im not going to napa anymore. I been going to advance auto and buying the "best" stuff they got. I got moog balljoints, timken bearings, spicer u-joints etc... etc.. been working out well plus they keep the warranty in the computer no reciept needed!!

Plus If im going the more expensive route id like tubular/perfomance stuff.
 

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I have been having alot of problems with Napa parts lately. "Nascar Select Orbital" Batteries went through 2 in 6 weeks made em give me a full refund and bought a Optima.(after I proved My charging system was up to par) MY beamer has a vacuum controled fuel regulator. 3 bad before one worked. Im not going to napa anymore. I been going to advance auto and buying the "best" stuff they got. I got moog balljoints, timken bearings, spicer u-joints etc... etc.. been working out well plus they keep the warranty in the computer no reciept needed!!

Plus If im going the more expensive route id like tubular/perfomance stuff.
+1 for Advance Auto Parts....used to be an Autozone/NAPA fan but realized how bad NAPA parts/service was and AutoZone wasn't super nice....went to advance to get new sway bar end links, guy came out and helped me with my car for well over an hour in their parking lot, been going to AAP ever since. Oh and most parts from moog there have lifetime warranty :rolleyes:
 

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Rockauto.com is where to go...forget ebays over price garbage and nappa heavy price..rockauto has name brand with the best price....dang I sound like rep! haha plus shipping is fast
 

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FWIW, I replaced both upper ball joints (the came as entire upper control arms) from Napa for about $60 per side, within 2 months the passenger side was squawking like before I changed them. On the positive side, I didn't call Napa for about 4 months cause I figured they weren't gonna replace them but I was wrong. Napa said bring it in, we'll give you a new one. Not bad considering they are over 6 months on the car now; of course, if I'd read the warranty part, they're guaranteed for a year - DOH!

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=MRC10764_0186298555&An=599001+101995+50026+2026030
Lots of China stuff is making its way to NAPA. They hide behind their brands like MCP or United Brake but you have to see the country of origin on the box (if it even means anything anymore). I have problems with their emergency/parking brake cables(Raybestos), they seem to seize up. They happily warranty it but its a pain to change every year or two. If you buy the cheap suspension parts there you are getting the rockauto cheapie "Service Grade" from the Raybestos/Mcquay Norris Family: http://www.affiniagroup.com/wps/portal/affiniagroup. The service grade is probably made overseas. Not the worst thing, but its a step up from the Ebay or Dorman quality that you get for cheap on Ebay. Autozone Duralast/Valucraft suspension stuff are the professional/service grade affina products. If you carefully match pictures to rockauto this can become apparent, the parts are usually in the exact same position and direction, bolts, etc. Even the part numbers match sometimes.

Not saying all aftermarket is bad, but they sometimes have to guess at product specs if they are not the OEM. Also, the lower priced parts are an excuse to cut corners on quality. If it lasts 6 months it did its job, most shops (like midas) warranty work for 4 months so parts like that are fine. In two years of normal driving most of those parts will fail, and by then people will just replace the part or have gotten rid of the car already. Usually suspension fails on cars that are nearing a decade in age or miles.

Moog(TRW)/Motorcraft are OEM suppliers who have access to original specs for these cars. When Motorcraft sells a part, they tell the manufacturer the quality they want and not the other way around. They also supply exact specs, and both companies test it and are responsible. M/C parts are used for Ford warranty repairs, so they are not looking for games and comebacks.

Advance auto still carries moog, its somewhat overpriced. Rockauto or a discount Ford parts dealer is your best bet. The ford parts guy here is moving to tasca parts, they have pretty good prices on stuff: http://www.tascafordparts.com/index.do
 

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I agree with you to a certain point, however companies don't purposely make bad/defective parts otherwise people wont buy and they go out of business plain and simple. There is many different materials and machine processes that may be use to make a part. Myself being in a field of quality assurance and distrubution in industrial products you have to realize that each process you add to a part increase the final cost of that product.
Now as a customer you may wish to just keep the car going for a couple more years,then you go with this certain product. This product might use mild steel as to its performance grade AL. Just depends what the customer wants. Your point you pay for what you get is a good rule of thumb when buying from the manufacture NOT the supplier. The supplier like nappa or rockauto just sell the product, they put there markup price on it and thats what it is. Nappa is more expensive because they have actual stores, rockauto doesn't. Therefore can just use distribution points to sell there products and ship worldwide, cutting operation cost. Now the manufacture doesn't say these products that are going to Nappa dont have to have the same quality as the ones going to rockauto. Wrong! The manufacture will ruin there brand name!

Now from parts coming into the US, like from china doesn't mean that there is NO quality. However you do need to teach the employees over there your standards so yes it may suffer a bit. Many companies use the 6sigma standard. The reason why companies move over seas is the fact labor is cheap. VERY cheap. Something that says made in China doesn't mean it stinks, what it is, the company is trying to make the same product for less without suffering quality and one aspect of that is what is called, lean manufacturing."Doing more with less." Now yes there is knock off brands out there and chances are you know you are buying a knock off brand becuase the site you are on.

Granted this message is long and some of it is opinionated and I am sorry but I just want to let people know. Hope this helps beamerboy.
 

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I agree with you to a certain point, however companies don't purposely make bad/defective parts otherwise people wont buy and they go out of business plain and simple. There is many different materials and machine processes that may be use to make a part. Myself being in a field of quality assurance and distrubution in industrial products you have to realize that each process you add to a part increase the final cost of that product.
Now as a customer you may wish to just keep the car going for a couple more years,then you go with this certain product. This product might use mild steel as to its performance grade AL. Just depends what the customer wants. Your point you pay for what you get is a good rule of thumb when buying from the manufacture NOT the supplier. The supplier like nappa or rockauto just sell the product, they put there markup price on it and thats what it is. Nappa is more expensive because they have actual stores, rockauto doesn't. Therefore can just use distribution points to sell there products and ship worldwide, cutting operation cost. Now the manufacture doesn't say these products that are going to Nappa dont have to have the same quality as the ones going to rockauto. Wrong! The manufacture will ruin there brand name!

Now from parts coming into the US, like from china doesn't mean that there is NO quality. However you do need to teach the employees over there your standards so yes it may suffer a bit. Many companies use the 6sigma standard. The reason why companies move over seas is the fact labor is cheap. VERY cheap. Something that says made in China doesn't mean it stinks, what it is, the company is trying to make the same product for less without suffering quality and one aspect of that is what is called, lean manufacturing."Doing more with less." Now yes there is knock off brands out there and chances are you know you are buying a knock off brand becuase the site you are on.

Granted this message is long and some of it is opinionated and I am sorry but I just want to let people know. Hope this helps beamerboy.

Nope, they don't purposely make defective products (that is fraud) but they can cut corners here and there, use a softer steel etc. I had NAPA brake cables that had to be dremeled to fit an application (its a known issue on each unit). Then again, $20 vs $86 for a Ford one makes you think a bit, especially if its an older car. The same cable is also sold by Rockauto. Brake rotors are also similar, cheaper rotors may use a bit less of whatever in the steel, and will warp in sooner. Also the quality may be inconsistent, some rotors will exceed specs and others will be crap.

If their production cost is very low and the products expected life is a year or two, even if they have warranty claims they are just on the hook for another cheap part. The business model could even be computed on a 25% return rate. The actual cost for them on the China part may be $1. The bell curve will always allow some units to last long.

I know Dorman was selling bum camshaft synchronizes which were "close" in fitment to the original product. Also, they would disconnect and not allow the oil pump to spin. This problem was going on for over a YEAR, and they knew about it, and acknowledged it on forums! They ended up reimbursing some people for engines. I don't know how widespread it is, but its obviously a major design issue. No one who bought the original Motocraft part had any complaint except for the price. They will get another decade or more out of that unit.

ISO 9001/TQM/Six sigma is good to an extent, but just because you are certified doesn't mean you are creating a great product.

Remember that aftermarket parts are designed from original product samples in most cases, not real specs. They also generalize products like ball joints and may leave details off a specific application. So they are at a disadvantage there. I will also say there are crappy OEM parts too!

here is a video from ford that could explain some of this:
http://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chassis.aspx
________
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I really aprpeciate all the input!! I guess what I really want to know is

1. Has anyone actually bought those eBay ones to see them in action?

2. Does anyone know where to get some nice quality/pro tubular ones

I plan on buying the moogs from Advance auto cause of the easy returns and replacement if I cant find something performancy or someone tell me the ones off eBay were pretty good!! I used to work for a company that practiced "Lean Manufacturing" really turned the company in the right direction I was impressed!! So I can appreciate your points.
 

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To my knowledge, nobody makes tubular upper arms for our cars. The way the factory one is, tubular probably wouldn't be much of a gain anyway since it probably wouldn't be any stiffer than the factory one, and maybe only marginally lighter.

I have no input on the ebay ones, except to say that for as cheap as you can get the ones from advance, it really isn't worth the risk of having to re-do it just to save $20 on the parts.
 

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I really aprpeciate all the input!! I guess what I really want to know is

1. Has anyone actually bought those eBay ones to see them in action?

2. Does anyone know where to get some nice quality/pro tubular ones

I plan on buying the moogs from Advance auto cause of the easy returns and replacement if I cant find something performancy or someone tell me the ones off eBay were pretty good!! I used to work for a company that practiced "Lean Manufacturing" really turned the company in the right direction I was impressed!! So I can appreciate your points.
From what I've seen on this board and MK8 boards low cost/ebay parts in general are a purchase people regret, then they go out and get Moog. There is a recent thread about someone who bought a cheap sway bar link, only to have it fail in 4 months. I don't even see a warranty for one of the vendors. The other is 6 months.



If you get lower control arms at Advance have them special order the TRW ones for the SC. They are 56$ each and give you the bushings for the LCA strut rod.

Lean manufacturing is ok if a company like Motorcraft does it, who is starting with a very high quality product. However if someone like Dorman does it, that is another story, and its a disaster.

These are cars are pushing 4000lbs, maybe those parts are good for smaller cars.I'm also curious if someone had luck with them on the tbird.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The cost of buying all this stuff from advance auto would tally up to $525. Quite a far shot from 20 bux.



MadMikeyL
To my knowledge, nobody makes tubular upper arms for our cars. The way the factory one is, tubular probably wouldn't be much of a gain anyway since it probably wouldn't be any stiffer than the factory one, and maybe only marginally lighter.


As for this I beleive your right I looked evrywhere for performance ones and just couldnt find it.

I appreciate evryones responces and input. I could also use some help on this thread http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=126410

I decided to just go ahead and buy all Moog stuff Lifetime guarantee is just too hard to give up no matter how much you save. Now to break the bad news t the wife :( !! Again thanka to all for there help!!

ps i guess this is BUMP ??
 

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Nope, they don't purposely make defective products (that is fraud) but they can cut corners here and there, use a softer steel etc. I had NAPA brake cables that had to be dremeled to fit an application (its a known issue on each unit). Then again, $20 vs $86 for a Ford one makes you think a bit, especially if its an older car. The same cable is also sold by Rockauto. Brake rotors are also similar, cheaper rotors may use a bit less of whatever in the steel, and will warp in sooner. Also the quality may be inconsistent, some rotors will exceed specs and others will be crap.

If their production cost is very low and the products expected life is a year or two, even if they have warranty claims they are just on the hook for another cheap part. The business model could even be computed on a 25% return rate. The actual cost for them on the China part may be $1. The bell curve will always allow some units to last long.

I know Dorman was selling bum camshaft synchronizes which were "close" in fitment to the original product. Also, they would disconnect and not allow the oil pump to spin. This problem was going on for over a YEAR, and they knew about it, and acknowledged it on forums! They ended up reimbursing some people for engines. I don't know how widespread it is, but its obviously a major design issue. No one who bought the original Motocraft part had any complaint except for the price. They will get another decade or more out of that unit.

ISO 9001/TQM/Six sigma is good to an extent, but just because you are certified doesn't mean you are creating a great product.

Remember that aftermarket parts are designed from original product samples in most cases, not real specs. They also generalize products like ball joints and may leave details off a specific application. So they are at a disadvantage there. I will also say there are crappy OEM parts too!

here is a video from ford that could explain some of this:
http://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chassis.aspx
Lean Manufacturing can be use by any manufacture that wants to. Three reasons why companies dont do it... A. it cuts jobs. and B. Changing peoples old ways and habits and teaching them to do it different. C. Front Cost and implementation. (Has high investment cost)
Lean Manufacturing is used for production, not batch. so yes an auto parts company can go lean whether they are just the retailers or the manufactures, or in some cases both.
Using softer steel isn't decreased quality...they know its softer and usually the product descripiton states matieral that was use...however most people don't bother reading it. The reason why ford is expensive for parts is becuase they are not in it for the parts business they are in business by producing cars. They don't run production for the hell of it just to make spare parts. Buying parts from ford is not part of the supply chain. They just dont know how to operate that way.
Thank for the video it is good and I myself like motorcraft parts, however this is a motorcraft rep..hes never going to say his parts are bad and he will allways denounce competitor products
 

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The cost of buying all this stuff from advance auto would tally up to $525. Quite a far shot from 20 bux.



MadMikeyL
To my knowledge, nobody makes tubular upper arms for our cars. The way the factory one is, tubular probably wouldn't be much of a gain anyway since it probably wouldn't be any stiffer than the factory one, and maybe only marginally lighter.


As for this I beleive your right I looked evrywhere for performance ones and just couldnt find it.

I appreciate evryones responces and input. I could also use some help on this thread http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=126410

I decided to just go ahead and buy all Moog stuff Lifetime guarantee is just too hard to give up no matter how much you save. Now to break the bad news t the wife :( !! Again thanka to all for there help!!

ps i guess this is BUMP ??


What if you buy some of your stuff from Rockauto(don't forget the 5% discount- search for it)? And The Ford Parts guy here? You wanted to buy from ebay at first!

The upper control arms are less than 100 bucks for 2 (Motorcraft- from jon here)
The lowers arms can be had from rockauto for around 120 (new bushings)
Moog(or Motorcraft) - 4 tie rods about $100 shipped from rockauto
Moog Sway bars links for $100/pr (maybe pick the raybestos ones for $60/pr)

So in the worse case you are around $400 bucks, the ebay junk cost $200, and you are getting control arms with new bushings. A shop would charge you $100/side to press in ball joints, so in essence there is no difference if you look at it that way.
 

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Agreed ...stay away from ebay man...these parts are available through car part dealers, with return and warranties, I would use ebay for parts that you have to get used and are not produced anymore. However if you are hellbent on ebay, go for it and let us know the outcome of it...You might surprise us all
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What if you buy some of your stuff from Rockauto(don't forget the 5% discount- search for it)? And The Ford Parts guy here? You wanted to buy from ebay at first!

The upper control arms are less than 100 bucks for 2 (Motorcraft- from jon here)
The lowers arms can be had from rockauto for around 120 (new bushings)
Moog(or Motorcraft) - 4 tie rods about $100 shipped from rockauto
Moog Sway bars links for $100/pr (maybe pick the raybestos ones for $60/pr)

So in the worse case you are around $400 bucks, the ebay junk cost $200, and you are getting control arms with new bushings. A shop would charge you $100/side to press in ball joints, so in essence there is no difference if you look at it that way.

If you go back to the top and read the post I wanted to know if anybody recomended them or not. And I was looking for tubular ones. Not that a wanted them. unless someone had already purchased them with excellent results might of changed my mind

Second ordering parts from all those different places makes getting replacements more of a hassle. Needing receipts and all that. Plus when ordering online your vehicle is down alot longer because of shipping of parts which you have to pay for.

So like I said I will stick with my peice of mind in my Advance Auto Moog parts So if it breaks I can go to my local parts store and pick up FREE LIFETIME REPLACEMENT which Ford wont do and have my car back on the road sameday. And I would never trust Anyone to press my balljoints ever!!
 

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If you go back to the top and read the post I wanted to know if anybody recomended them or not. And I was looking for tubular ones. Not that a wanted them. unless someone had already purchased them with excellent results might of changed my mind

Second ordering parts from all those different places makes getting replacements more of a hassle. Needing receipts and all that. Plus when ordering online your vehicle is down alot longer because of shipping of parts which you have to pay for.

So like I said I will stick with my peice of mind in my Advance Auto Moog parts So if it breaks I can go to my local parts store and pick up FREE LIFETIME REPLACEMENT which Ford wont do and have my car back on the road sameday. And I would never trust Anyone to press my balljoints ever!!
Sorry, I understand, Advance is a good choice too. They are great about swapping bad stuff, and I'm happy with most of their stuff. Some shops swear by them.

One last thing about Advance, I do buy there a lot and they will price match competition as long as the warranty matches(could even be a different brand). Check autozone or any other local store for the parts, and if its cheaper and the same warranty they will give you the price. I don't know if they match rockauto, but it can't hurt! If they can call them they may PM.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Okay so against everyones including my own I bout the Ebay ones here:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/THUNDERBIRD-COUGAR-89-97-LINKS-4-CONTROL-ARMS-TIE-RODS_W0QQitemZ230353376396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a221948c

I got mine for a few dollars less but for 180 shipped to the door it was a helluva deal, all the hardware is included, all ball joints and bushings are already installed and everything but the outer tie rods were O.E.BRAND, which I've used before and dont have complaints about. It also came with 1 yr. warranty. So since I am laid-off now and will be broke for a while this should get me through.

I couldn't believe all the stuff this came with!!

2x front Upper Control Arms complete with ball joints and bushings installed(no zircs)
2X front Lower Control Arms complete with ball joints and bushings installed(no zircs)
2X Inner Tie Rods complete with hardware
2X Outer Tie Rods complete with hardware
2x Sway Bar Links complete with hardware


Heres some pics:













Now I'm not trying to sell these to anybody. I just want you to see for yourself and make your own decision. I havent installed them yet so I cant vouch for fitment. I think they were the perfect solution for me, not knowing the cars history, and it having close to 200,00 miles its cheap insurance. My car has a "shimmy" when u crank the wheel all the way and move, its like the tires are out of round. I think its a ball joint, but with all thats in this kit, I'll Find out for sure!!
 
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