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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My car is stock power-wise, and I never had a hint of wheelhop with the open diff. But once I installed a Trak-loc, I get wheelhop 99% of the time I spin the tires. Rob said that was fairly common when both wheels are spinning, which I don’t understand that since my Toyota is IRS and doesn’t have a hint of wheelhop, and I have done a lot of burnouts with it.

With my IRS drag cars, I have found that things like stiffer swaybars and suspension eliminate wheelhop. So when I installed the Tokico Blues and 1 1/8” swaybar, I was looking forward to the side benefit of eliminating the stupid wheelhop, especially when one of the old rear shocks appeared to be blown.

So the first time I get into it with the new suspension, not only do I still have the hop, you can feel it much more in the car. The control arm bushings are still original with 76k miles, but they look okay. The hop always seems to come from the left tire.

Ironically, they only time I recall not getting the hop was when I did a hellacious dry donut with the worn shocks. It only seems to do it when you are just spinning lightly.

So what gives? Am I stuck with the stupid wheelhop unless I install drag bags or something of that nature? I sometimes wonder if the hop is caused by the clutches grabbing, then letting go. In a lot of ways, the Trak-loc has been a huge disappointment, getting stuck when both wheels are not flat on the ground, etc. The only situation it has helped is in the snow.

Thanks,
Al
 

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The trac lok exacerbates it but it isn’t causing it, any diff you use that spins both wheels(true trac, spool, locker) will hop in these, and the clutches don’t grab and let go, that would be a locker type diff, they simply they slip when one wheel spins faster than the other. The bushings are the root of the issue, in particular the IRS ones.
 

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I agree with XR7-4.6

The rear bushings and all sway bar bushings and such need to be good. The airbags will help settle it more along with the other things. The one thing I've found out on these cars are short/stiff sidewalls are great for cornering and driving but not so much accelerating. For launching they like a tall sidewall and tall tire. Same for lowering springs. They don't work well either when it comes to instant acceleration. They are sometimes too stiff and cause them (Tires) to bounce too.

I cant begin to count how many halfshafts I've broken on radials or drag racing with drag radial tires Bias Drag tires and sidewalls are much more forgiving. But for a mostly or all street driven car it is what it is.

Just my thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The swaybar end links are new. I have the 1" drop Vogtland springs (more like 1/2" tops), and the stock sized 215/70-15 balloon tires. New poly spring isolators (that's probably why I feel the hop more now).

I understand those control arm bushings are a bear to install. Rob avoided those like the plague when he installed the springs, probably didn't want to tear them up. I didn't think it was possible to install springs w/o disconnecting the control arms, but he did!

So basically, with all new parts and a Trak-loc, they don't wheelhop? Or do you still need additional reinforcement?

If I replace the control arm bushings, there are still large subframe bushings that are unavailable, correct?

Al
 

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The lowering springs are the problem.

When your car launches, the coil springs compress to the maximum amount, due to being shorter.

Then the next soft part of the suspension is the tires, the tires act like a suspension part.

There is your wheel hop.

Raced my cougar since 2010 full time.

Stock rear suspension, never had wheel hop.
 

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Stock 5-speed SC suspensions wheelhop. I think there may be something to the stiffer springs though, it’s very that possible most of the energy gets absorbed through the softer LX setup, while with stiffer springs like SC, sport and lowering varieties, that energy gets transferred elsewhere, ie bushings, which aren’t controlled like the springs are via the shock absorbers.

That was the problem on early Fox body cars too, the control arm bushings were very soft(out of necessity due to the geometry in their case) and suffered wheel hop as performance gradually improved, and it was mostly solved with the quad shocks on the Turbo Coupe Tbirds, which were effectively horizontal dampers for the bushings.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The lowering springs are the problem.

When your car launches….
The car wheel hopped exactly the same with stock suspension VS stiffer suspension. And there have been no full throttle launches, just spinning the tires a little. Not sure you can even call these springs lowering springs since the car only dropped 1/4”-3/8”.

With my old Eagle Talon TSI AWD, a stiffer swaybar and rear strut tower bar eliminated the wheelhop. I was hoping for the same with this swaybar. It makes the car feel more like a solid axle car than our Crown Vic PI, which is a solid axle car!

Al
 

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The variable rate purple springs I got with my Tokicos are really bouncy; when the stiffer section hits, it rebounds, then the low stiffness section wiggles for a bit.

I hate those springs; I'm going to cut a set of the stock V8 ones I have like Earl and CrystalPistol did.
 

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50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
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What size were the sidewalls? (tires)

Thin sidewalls don't help.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The variable rate purple springs I got with my Tokicos are really bouncy; when the stiffer section hits, it rebounds, then the low stiffness section wiggles for a bit.
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What brand are they? I have the Vogtlands. They are a little bouncy in the rear, I thought that was the rear swaybar causing it since I installed it all at the same time.

What size were the sidewalls? (tires)

Thin sidewalls don't help.
Stock sized tires, 215/70-15.

Al
 

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What brand are they? I have the Vogtlands. They are a little bouncy in the rear, I thought that was the rear swaybar causing it since I installed it all at the same time.



...

Al
IDK what springs these are, actually. I bought them as a kit with a set of 4 Tokico Blues off Amazon.

They're purple, and have a variable rate section at one end; I looked them up in my Amazon account, but the Pic there doesn't match the springs I have.
They look like the Vogtland springs on SCP's site.

Swaybar shouldn't cause bounce, imho; That's the spring force overcoming the shock damping.

I had to crank the konis way up when I put sport springs on that car, and that makes freeway expansion joints Way less fun. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
When the shocks and springs were replaced, Rob said it appeared one of the old shocks was blown.

Al
 

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If you've got 10yo shocks on your car, you'll be really surprised when you replace them.

I would buy the (mustang) konis or bilsteins while they're still available for the rear.
 

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How likely are they to not be available in the near future? With the Mustang market being so large, I'd be surprised that they stop making the Bilsteins and / or Konis.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If you've got 10yo shocks on your car, you'll be really surprised when you replace them.

I would buy the (mustang) konis or bilsteins while they're still available for the rear.
Who are you referring to?

I stated that my shocks and springs were replaced recently.

I won't lie, this is getting frustrating. The clear consensus on this forum was that the Vogtlands were good springs, and were a perfect match for the Tokicos. Now I get them, find that they are a little bouncy, now other people are saying they are bouncy, and that "the spring force is overcoming the shock damping".

Al
 

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I don’t expect them to disappear either, obselesence anxiety is a thing you get after prolonged MN12 ownership.

Also bear in mind, even a low end replacement shock for a Cobra is still going to be better than anything you find specific to MN12s
So even a Monroe Daily Driver for the Cobra would be better than the Tokico Blues for the MN12? Is that what you're saying?

Who are you referring to?

I stated that my shocks and springs were replaced recently.

I won't lie, this is getting frustrating. The clear consensus on this forum was that the Vogtlands were good springs, and were a perfect match for the Tokicos. Now I get them, find that they are a little bouncy, now other people are saying they are bouncy, and that "the spring force is overcoming the shock damping".

Al
For me, I won't care. The current handling situation of my T-Bird is that of a 16 foot boat out in rough seas. It was so bad in fact, that it was briefly nicknamed "The Boat" by some of my friends. That was all before I parked her though, lol.

Once I get all the new suspension parts put in, which includes the Vogtlands, it'll be fixed a whole lot better than what it currently is.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Then don't get the Monroes, or your "captaincy" will remain intact.

I ran the Sensatracs on my old 95 T-Bird, and from day one, a dip in the road would make the car "ride the wave" two or three times. Pathetic shocks.

Al
 

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So even a Monroe Daily Driver for the Cobra would be better than the Tokico Blues for the MN12? Is that what you're saying?



For me, I won't care. The current handling situation of my T-Bird is that of a 16 foot boat out in rough seas. It was so bad in fact, that it was briefly nicknamed "The Boat" by some of my friends. That was all before I parked her though, lol.

Once I get all the new suspension parts put in, which includes the Vogtlands, it'll be fixed a whole lot better than what it currently is.
If Monroe or anyone else makes them, they probably are. The aftermarket meets OE spec, they may not be equal of course, but OE spec valving for a IRS Cobra only came in performance flavor. OE spec for a MN12 is almost always floaty V6 LX grade. They don’t want returns because the shocks are noticeably inadequate for the car’s spring rates
 
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