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Discussion Starter #1
This is my first post here, have been waiting anxiously for 2 days to be able to post :)...


I just bought a 1997 Thunderbird LX v6, and probably a money pit and headache generator along with it...


The engine..... oh the engine...

The engine runs rough at idle. The MAS is unplugged. With it plugged in the idle smooths out great, but the vehicle will then have no power and will not accellerate. I had a Toyota that had a similar problem and it was the TPS at fault. I also noticed that 2 O2 sensors had been removed (holes plugged and wires cut).

Does anyone have the procedure to check the MAS with a voltmeter?

Next issue... Oil pressure.... not so much.

This engine has oil pressure issues. I know the gauge is really a fancy idiot light, however from experience I know this engine does have oil pressure issues as I can hear the valve train making noises, especially when the gauge drops.

My first inclination is to pull the pan off the engine while its somewhat in the car, toss new bearings in there and put in a new oil pump. I know this is just a band aid but if it buys me 6 months, thats fine.

Option #2 is go to a local yard and buy a used engine and hope its ok. I don't know what year engines/components interchange with my 97 though. (v8 swap NOT an option at this point)

Option #3 is I just pull the engine completely out and overhaul it myself. Don't particularly like this as it entails sending stuff out to machine shops (and I am fairly new to the area and have no connections/recommendations on where to go for good work), also this option would take way too much time.


I can't drive the car right now either. After a short cruise around the block, one of the rear metal brake lines decided to rupture and shot brake fluid all over the ground, and of course the car now has almost no stopping abilities at all. I'll be addressing this as soon as my double flare line tool gets here in the mail.

After I get the brakes fixed, many more posts to come I'm sure.


Thanks


Dan

97 Thunderbird LX v6
 

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wow, wont go and when it does, it wont stop! lol! that's not good tho. the o2's being cut is no good, as the eec uses these for a/f mix. as for the swap, i can tell you that a 97 3.8 works in a 94 (with some minor work)
 

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Ouch! Sorry to hear you're off to such a rough start with your TBird. Sorry, I can't be much help since I have absolutely Zero experience with the V-6 engines. But, I'm sure there are lots of other people here that can help out.

Anyway, Welcome to the site!!

:rofl: :headbang: :zbeer:
:zmonkey: :znanner: :zmonkey: :znanner: :zmonkey:
 

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ok, so why did you buy this car with so many problems? hopefully you didnt pay too much
 

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Discussion Starter #5
because I didn't pay too much...

The body and interior are in good shape. Only eyesore is a 2" dent in the front bumper.
 

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mine has a few "dents" like the one i got from a mailbox when i slid around a corner doin 50... thats not gonna be cheap to smooth out!
 

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You could always clean out the MAS on that one, VERY VERY easy, but be very careful, and see if that helps ya do anything. I know rough runnin can be cause of a dirty MAS

Only way I know for the oil pressure is to drop the pan, change everything out inside, and call it good. Hopefully that will help you out on that one. Not a particularly hard job to do, but if you're in there, you might as well do it right.

Good luck with the bird, there's lots of us on here who can always lend a helping hand!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not even driving the car yet, still waiting on Harbor-slowazz-freight to get the flaring tool I purchased a week ago to me.

As far as engine controls go, the guy I got the car from said the MAS was bad and unplugged it so the car would drive. It drives (drove?) ok but idle is crap. I had it on a lift when diagnosing the brake problem and saw that there were no o2 sensors at all, just cut wires. There is no CEL, the bulb may be out, but I can't see any other way why it isn't on. I'm still waiting for a diagnostic procedure on the MAS to determine if it is bad or not. I can see it being dirty though.
I saw a post regarding special MAS cleaner spary, is this spray something I can pick up locally? I don't recall seeing it at AutoZone, but I never looked for it either..



Hopefully I'll get a chance to "play" with it today...


Dan
 

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i'd also lke to know where to get the MAF cleaner, because i dont have mine plugged in either.
 

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no special cleaner to do the sensor. You do though however have to have a special torx bit with a hole in the bottom of it to take off the sensor piece (available at autozone for 9.99) but to actually clean off the sensor, just take and spray a q-tip with carb cleaner, and lightly rub the q-tip on there, it will clean everything off. Then let it dry of course, then put it back on. Short, sweet and too the point.

I just cleaned mine 3 days ago and this was the exact method i used.
 

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Your car should actually have 4 O2 sensors, two before of the catalytic converters (either in the down-tubes or the exhaust manifolds themselves), and two after the converters, in the exhaust system. The two that are after the cats are just to measure efficiency (and presence) of the catalytic converters. If they're gone, it really shouldn't affect driveability.

The two before the cats, however, they're quite important.

I don't have a test procedure for the MAF (then again, I don't have a MAF car), but would certainly try the cleaning procedure first. Unplugging it makes the car default back to a set of pre-determined values for air flow at the immediate throttle position (I think... don't quote me on that), so if unplugging it makes the car run better, I'd be nearly 100 percent that the problem really is the MAF. Clean it, and if that doesn't work, might head to a junk yard and see about getting another.

Good luck on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
"The voltage at terminals A and B with engine on should be 10.5V
The voltage between C and D should be .34 - 1.96 V at idle.
If not you may have an electrical prob in the sensor head. "

I'm getting 14.0 between A and B and .90 between C and D...

Gonna replace it, I have a lead on one.

With the MAF plugged in, the car idles well but when you hit the gas it just bogs almost endlessly (as if no extra fuel is coming in with the extra air) and will die if in gear.

Dan
 

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as far as the o2 sensor wires being cut just go to a wrecking yard and find a motor harness that will plug in over the motor
 

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Dan,

Check eBay for a MAF. That is where I got my last one.

How well do you know and trust the previous owner? Was there a chip put in? If so is it still there?

Your car has been modified and jury rigged. You need to find out what was done to it or you will be chasing crap. You may just have to do a "Stem to Stern" diagnostic on the car.

Have you looked in the KY Chapter forum for people to hook up with? That may be of the greatest help. Otherwise get to know Darin, Lonnie, DirtyD0g, Thomas and other experts here, and send them your "mail order" business.
 
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