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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
If I aquire a 5.0 bellhousing and pedals and such for my T-bird, will the T-5 transmission from my 4-cylinder mustang work for a swap into my 91 T-bird?

I've heard that the transmissions are mechanically the same, but not sure if thats true.
I wasn't sure what manual gearbox they used 4 this model.
I have an AOD now I think (If the AOD is the one that accelerates better in 2nd than it does in first, then I've got that)
And I have Two of these T-5's laying around that would sure make me alot happier on my take off's. I got beat by a ricer two weeks ago because I didn't stomp on it when he did and I couldnt wind up to second before we ran out of two lanes (merge area).
He was manually transmitting his 80 ft lbs of course.
But my supposed 275 fts or so are getting lost in that transmissions planetary gears somewhere I guess.
Needless to say, that insult cannot occur again.

Of course, had we met on the highway, going, Oh, I don't know, 70? ,
It would have been a different story.
That's when flooring it means a nice (still suprising to me) kick in the pants that makes you wanny hollar with excitement.
And that's where 4-cyls , manual or not, really just can't do anything. (Without a high amount of boost from turbo or other)

I just hate it when I drive my grandmothers V-6 taurus and stomp it a little in 1st gear, and the damn thing feels like it would blow my T-bird away. (because it probably would till 2nd at 3000 rpm).



Anyway, if not my T-5's, what will work?


Thanks, and sorry for the speel about ricer losses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Amazing what you can learn by just looking around. I suppose if I just use the search I can figure out how extensive this "major modification" really is without bothering anyone to even post. Fancy that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
http://www.sccoa.com/articles/r&eracing.html

This gives me a good idea of what to expect.
I think I can extend the shifter assembly without scrapping two transmissions (fabrication) and Im thinking I can probably work out a mechanical clutch, instead of the hydraulic one here. I can just use the 5.0 mustang throw out bearings instead of the SC stuff, I'll need a flywheel too.
Aluminum aerostar driveshaft should be easy enough to get from one of my local yards.
Says the mounting positions only need to be drilled out, so thats not a nightmare. Looks like the hard part is extending the transmission casing. Hell, I've got two of 'em, I ain't skeert.
We shall see what develops in the coming months....
 

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First of all, I don't think a 4-cyl T5 trans will hold up behind a 5.0. I know when I worked at a mustang performance shop we converted one car to a 5 speed using a trans that the guy brought in, and about 3 weeks later the car got flat-bedded in with the trans siezed up. Turned out it was out of a 4-cyl mustang. We put in one out of a V8 and the car never had any trans problems again. I don't know if that was just a fluke or something, but personally I would stick with a trans that will hold the power.

Next order of business, since you have a 5.0, it would be much easier to get an M5R2 out of a 5-speed SC since that will be a direct bolt-in swap. I did the T45 swap on my 4.6L car, which involves basically the same fabrications and modifications as a T5 would. While it isn't really hard to do, it takes a lot of planning, some fabricating, a lot of gathering up all the right parts, etc. As for the aerostar driveshaft, it won't work with a T5. The T5 will need a driveshaft the length as for the AOD, which I believe is 57 7/8" from centerline to centerline(could be wrong on this, but its close to that). The aerostar shaft is 55.5". This makes it work perfectly for a T45 swap without even having to shorten it, but with a T5 you will need to find a longer aluminum driveshaft, or use your stock one. If you used the SC trans, the driveshaft for that is like 53", so you could have an aerostar shaft shortened and use that with the M5R2. Also you get the advantage of the steeper gears. You can leave your stock 3.08 rear end gears, but because of the way the trans is geared it would be comparable to a T5 with 3.55s. Also the M5R2 can handle more torque than the T5. Basically the only advantage to using the T5 is that it shifts smoother, but with the B&M shifter on the M5R2, I really don't have any complaints about the way mine shifts, except that the 3rd gear synchros are worn out, but once I get that fixed it will be fine. All the other gears I can shift as fast as I want through them and I never have any problems.

Now with all that said, if you still want to go with the T5, let me know and I can send you a list of parts that you will need to get to make it work. I did my swap using all off the shelf components so if I ever have any problems something, I can just walk into the auto parts store, buy a new one, and fix it instead of having to order it from a catalog and be without the car for a week while I wait for the part to arrive. Also I did my T45 swap for $1500 including the cost of the trans and getting a chip for the computer which you wouldn't have to do on a T5, so you could probably do the whole swap for just over $1000 if you shop around, and probably less if you already have the transmission.

Mike
 

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Oh yeah, also I didn't make the shifter extension box for my swap. I just modified the center console and shifter handle. This seems like a much simpler solution to me, but you do lose the stock look that the extension box gives you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
How does it feel? Any extra effort for shifting? What about throw? I was using a very short throw in the mustang. I know I will need it a little taller to reach in the T-bird. I'd very much like to use my T-5 if I can, since I've got them. I have a friend with a cougar that needs my AOD, and since I hate it I'm glad to oblidge them.

Wanting to try and stay low on costs, and I prefer the input from a cable clutch vs. the smooth cushy feel of a hydraulic throw out mechanism.
 

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Even if you could I wouldnt use the 4cyl T5, there are known to be very weak and the 5.0 will destroy it.

The only other difference I recall from my days on stangnet is that it has a different 1st gear ratio.
 

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Forget about a cable setup right now. I tried to make it work when I was doing my T45 swap, and there simply isn't any way to make the mustang pedals work with the tbird dash and firewall, and even if you could get them bolted up, there is no room for the quadrant to rotate. Get a clutch pedal and master out of an SC, and get a slave cylinder for a 94/95 chevy S10 4cyl. The S10 slave uses the same type of fitting as the SC master so you will need to get a line out of an SC to cut the fittings out of so you can make your own flexible line using the stock fittings and going between the SC master and the chevy slave. Mount the chevy slave on the side of the T5 and use a piece of threaded rod and locked nuts and a washer to push on the stock clutch fork. That is how my setup is, and it works great. The pedal feel is nice and firm, a little firmer than stock. It isn't mushy at all, and the slave isn't inside the bell housing so if something goes wrong with the slave, its just a couple bolts holdiing it on instead of having to drop the whole trans.

Mike
 

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I'm surprised nobody mentioned that the input shafts are different between the V8 T-5 and the I4 T-5. :thumbsup:

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

You can put a V8 T-5 behind the 2.3L by drilling out the crank pilot area and installing the proper pilot bearing (I did this in my 85 TurboCoupe), but the 2.3L's T-5 has a shorter shaft (I think) and won't properly engage in the pilot bearing. :beek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
94 Daily Driven 4.6L said:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned that the input shafts are different between the V8 T-5 and the I4 T-5. :thumbsup:

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

You can put a V8 T-5 behind the 2.3L by drilling out the crank pilot area and installing the proper pilot bearing (I did this in my 85 TurboCoupe), but the 2.3L's T-5 has a shorter shaft (I think) and won't properly engage in the pilot bearing. :beek:
This seemed logical to me, but wasn't sure if they just made the 2.3 the same to save time.
Guess I'll be getting the T-45 since I need another trans anyway.
 

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T45 won't bolt up to a 5.0. You need either a V8 T5, or an M5R2
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
MadMikeyL said:
T45 won't bolt up to a 5.0. You need either a V8 T5, or an M5R2
K.

Thanks for all the input everyone.
My biggest motivation here was that I already had a couple 4-cyl T-5's laying around.
SInce those wont work, and I can't budget the M5R2 right now, looks like this is going back burner till finances permit.
 

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If you want something for the meantime I have a 3000rpm stall converter for an AOD that has about 10K miles on it that I'll sell you for $100 plus shipping. I'm going with a 5-speed swap, so I don't need the converter anymore.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
MadMikeyL said:
If you want something for the meantime I have a 3000rpm stall converter for an AOD that has about 10K miles on it that I'll sell you for $100 plus shipping. I'm going with a 5-speed swap, so I don't need the converter anymore.

Mike
Would it really be worth the trouble of installing it?
 

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MadMikeyL said:
Forget about a cable setup right now. I tried to make it work when I was doing my T45 swap, and there simply isn't any way to make the mustang pedals work with the tbird dash and firewall, and even if you could get them bolted up, there is no room for the quadrant to rotate.
Hmm it HAS been done thou.. this was in the older days and on a 5.0L car.. so.. and more then once too.. I heard it was not easy thou...

Also Distortion 5.0, You can just start collecting the parts for the swap, Namely the Center console top, since they are getting harder to find/People Rapeing people $$ wise for them
When i converted my '91 to a M5R2 years ago, I had been collecting parts for like a year before.. as the funds and parts came up..
Been debating on converting my '89 to a 5spd too, but the tranny seems to be recently rebuilt in it.. so i'll hold off for abit, but i may start collecting parts again :D
 

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It was done once, and only once to my knowledge. Josh Skidonenko was the guy who did it, and as far as I know, there were never any pics of what he had to relocate under the dash to make it work. Unfortunately the car only lasted a short while before it was totalled and he put the drivetrain into a mustang. I know when I was gathering parts to do my T45 swap, I already had the mustang pedals and I spent an entire saturday lining things up, cutting and bending the pedal bracket, unclipping wiring harnesses under the dash and trying to see where they could be moved to, etc. No matter what I did, I simply couldn't find any way to make it work. The older style dash might have a little more room under there, but you still have to deal with mounting it to the firewall. That was one of the biggest problems because the mustang pedal bolts up with 4 bolts, one in each corner, and on the bottom left, the dash has a curve in it that interferes with mounting the pedals flush. If you cut that part out, then you end up having to cut into where the pedal rotates in the bracket, so you would have to first cut the bracket and extend that section out a bit, but that interferes with the cross bar behind the dash, so that would have to be notched, and we still haven't touched on the fact that all the wiring for the light switch and instrument cluster, as well as the HVAC tube behind there would need to be moved somewhere else for the quadrant to turn. Believe me, I tried as best I could to make a cable setup work. I already had all the parts for it, and I was dead set on making it work, but I just couldn't. In the end the SC pedal and master with the chevy slave only cost me about $175, so for the agrivation involved in trying to get a cable setup to work, it just isn't worth it. If anyone has gotten a set of mustang pedals to work, I would love to see some pics and hear what you had to do to make them work cause it really seemed impossible to me without redoing a lot of stuff under the dash.

Mike
 

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Never knew Josh Skidonenko did it, or maybe i just don't remember, But it was a West coast person (washington state) that did it..

and i agree the Hydrualic way is the easiest way to go..

Also I think this guy that had did it, did some Hybrid Pedel assembly, not just bolting in a Mustang Pedal assembly. Also i swear someone else followed suite on his idea too..

Also the older cars are easier to work on under the dash.. Like i swaped brake pedal (auto for 5spd) and put in the clutch pedal in like a couple of hours at the most.. (and it's bolted in too like the OE setup, with the `u-bolt' below the windsheild, ect.. )
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The swap in a 4-cyl mustang is so freaking easy I could do it blind folded. Already done three of them, the last one in one day.

This transmission seems to be in better shape as well, and my first gear isn't quite as bad since I Undeleted the ACT (idiots) and got the computer out of "Failure Mode".

I wonder if I could have my 4-cyl rebuilt with 5.0 transmission parts for a decent price.
If only the input shaft and gear ratios (and construction materials) are different then it is probably an identical casing. Maybe not though.
 

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SInce those wont work, and I can't budget the M5R2 right now, looks like this is going back burner till finances permit.
In the meantime,
swapping to 3.55 or 3.73 final gears would be a
great bang-for-the-buck mod to wake up your V8,
and a whole lot less trouble and expense.

Find a junkyard SC pumpkin,
buy some gears and TL rebuild kit on ebay, get it set up.
$200-300 altogether, and the swap-out takes an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SC Ward said:
In the meantime,
swapping to 3.55 or 3.73 final gears would be a
great bang-for-the-buck mod to wake up your V8,
and a whole lot less trouble and expense.

Find a junkyard SC pumpkin,
buy some gears and TL rebuild kit on ebay, get it set up.
$200-300 altogether, and the swap-out takes an hour.
Thanks for the info.
Would that mod increase or decrease my Top speed? It will decrease right?
I am allready disastisfied with the cut off point (110 I guess)
 
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