TCCoA Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
Joined
·
1,255 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Will our junk ever be worth anything?

I brought a 1996 XR7 last Febuary. $4000. 36k miles. V8 auto.
Perfect in and out.

The reason I ask, I went to my girlfriends boss'es garage.
It has 80 cars in there.
Ranging from 20o9 Spykers to a 68 GTO tri power convertable.

Her boss just sold a 1967 Toyota GT, for 850K in california at auction. (Aug. 2013)
He had the toyota since 1985.
He put 55k to restore it. Had 160k invested in it.

I have the space to keep it.

Are these junkers worth it?

I wish I could post pics.

Its happy hour.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,493 Posts
The only ones I can see being worth anything in the long-run are the 35th anniversary SCs, and even then, I think they'll only be worth big money if they are ultra-low mileage perfect shape examples. What makes some of the classic cars bring big money is the combination of low production and high desirability. Things like a split-window corvette or the Mopar wing cars simply did not sell when they were new because of how impractical they were, but now when someone is looking for a weekend toy, those cars look great, and since there are so few of them, they command a premium price. There are also high production cars that have gone up in value, things like the GTO or Mustang or Camaro, but they are icons, and literally everybody knew someone with one of those cars, and if you are a car guy, it probably left an impression on you, so now years later, that is what you want. We are losers in both categories though, high production numbers, and a small cult-like following. Plus with all the base V6 models made, the thunderbird or cougar are looked at by many as an old person's car, and not a performance vehicle of any sort. Eventually, the price for one in good shape or restored will start going up in the same way that any car that is 50 years old in decent shape will be worth more just because there are so few of them left, but we have a long way to go before it gets close to that, and even then, it will never come close to the market for late 60s/early 70s muscle cars.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,830 Posts
Well, they won't bring 2000GT money if that's what you're asking:tongue:. Toyota only made ~350 of them, cost a fortune new and they were essentially a Japanese Ferrari at the time.


I don't think these will ever be worth that much. Maybe at best $10-15K in today's money, (adjust for inflation 20-30 years down the road), and that's for SCs and 89/90 XR7s(which are all fairly rare and sort-of known to enthusiasts). Otherwise I don't think there's demand to drive the prices up much further, even if survivors are few and far by then. Too many were made and there's too little variety between them.

MN12s are cult cars. Their biggest claim to fame is that they carry a pair of nameplates that last had relevance in the 1960s, all the while garnering appreciation from schlubs like us who learned how good they are after the fact. To everyone else though? These were never dream cars to an entire generation of kids when new, they never became legendary for speed, their looks are attractive but pretty much blend right in, and never became a moviestar (Jade doesn't count, no one saw it lol). It's us at TCCoA, SCCoA and LoD that are THE ralliers for these cars survival, yet if anyone lists their car above blue book in the classifieds, half the site trolls the thread :facepalm:

Plus I think the BIG money days are over. The coming generations of car collectors just don't have the numbers, nor coin to bid four figure cars into six or seven figures anymore. That was a Boomer phenomenon.
 

·
50 years of Mercury Cougar 1967/2017
Joined
·
1,255 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I see the point.
These will never be worth $.
Do you keep a perfect example or drive it
Like a lunatic.
What about the SC's?
I guess when you see a perfect example in the junk yard
there is no value.
It was a perfect 30th annv. XR7.
Its happy hour.
Her boss has nine more GT's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Her boss just sold a 1967 Toyota GT, for 850K in california at auction. (Aug. 2013)
He had the toyota since 1985.
He put 55k to restore it. Had 160k invested in it.
Well the boss is obviously rich, but I don't know if the car really performed terrific from an investment standpoint. He sold it for 5.3 x's his investment. Now I don't know when he invested the money, but if it was in 1985, he had a yearly return of 6.1%.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,410 Posts
...but if it was in 1985, he had a yearly return of 6.1%.
...Which is pretty crappy over that time frame; both the tech bubbles and the housing bubble were in that range. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,472 Posts
NO plan and simple.

The only people that find value in them is use and other Tbird and Cougar people--who are shortly going to be dieing off (think the youngest of the Boomers are early to mid 50's).

IMO the only ones that have a chance are 89-90 XR-7s and 35ths, manuals with low mileage and maybe SC/XR-7 #1.

Think what does a 50's Victoria go for now? Most of us won't get that because we are modded. Beyond that our only hope is a NASCAR connection (like Bill Elliot not Petty).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,830 Posts
NO plan and simple.

The only people that find value in them is use and other Tbird and Cougar people--who are shortly going to be dieing off (think the youngest of the Boomers are early to mid 50's).

IMO the only ones that have a chance are 89-90 XR-7s and 35ths, manuals with low mileage and maybe SC/XR-7 #1.

Think what does a 50's Victoria go for now? Most of us won't get that because we are modded. Beyond that our only hope is a NASCAR connection (like Bill Elliot not Petty).
I think the other question is when they do die off, their now classic 50s/60s/70s six figure trophy cars will presumably implode in value, creating some quite tantalizing choices in the market over some 80s/90s/00s car many of us currently look in. I know what I'd choose if/when that day comes.

I don't think being modded matters much anymore, at least if it's done right. These cars and most cars from the period are largely package deals and don't have the variety of weird or desireable options old cars do. That's where numbers matching is really desirable. With these though, "loaded" is in reality a few minor and very common options. In fact the rarest MN12s built are probably base models with no defrost ,cruise, power locks and alloys
 

·
Raoul Duke
Joined
·
1,747 Posts
Even the cars of the previous generation aren't holding the value I predicted they would, and I was sure they would go way up in value.
You can still pay a very reasonable sum for a mint '87-'88 Turbo Coupe or XR-7; comparable to what you would have paid for it ten years ago.

These cars tend to fly under the radar, keeping the value (and cost) low for the people who truly enjoy them.
 

·
̇
Joined
·
3,702 Posts
I really don't care if our cars never fetch "Barrett Jackson" prices..

Yeah there are some MN12's that are more rare than others, but the only ones that appreciate that fact are the MN12 enthusiasts..

Ask this question again in 20 years..lol

IMO..Unless you plan on attending Concours d'Elegance type events regularly..Keeping everything "numbers matching" so to speak is not worth it..

Just mod the car the way you like, and enjoy it for the pleasure it gives you..Not as an investment.. :)



Rayo..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,617 Posts
The way I see it they will never be worth more than the fun you can have in them now, maybe pristine sc's or a few specific models may one day gain value above what they originally sold for, but for the most part, live hard ,die young, leave a corpse with glossy paint :D
Alan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
Individual Car collecting / Currently Affordable Future collectibles:
* There are simply too many MN12s and not enough value to make them worth it. Considering how deflated cheaply you can pick up SCs nowadays, rare later year modles with lower mileage, it doesn't appear that the demand shows any sign of increasing. Buy them and enjoy them.
* My picks on "future" collectibles mostly center around 90s sports/sporty cars. America's economy wasn't doing to hot vs. the yen so lots of these cars were super expensive when they came out so not many were brought in. Plus, the F&F set thoroughly molested most of them so it will be a challenge to find a stock (or nearly stock model).
- Cars that have already seen pretty massive appreciation: last gen Supra, e30 BMW m3
- My pics for the next wave: 2nd gen MR2, Nissan 250sx (I know you can already sell them for more than blue book if stock in CA at least), Buick GN, 300zx twin turbo, e36 BMW M3, E40 BMW M5, 98-02 Audi S4 (being bone stock, my car has held its value but it will be interesting to see if it goes up). I doubt you will find any "investment grade" cars out of this bunch though.

Overall Automotive Collectible Market
I read this article recently about how the luxury vehicle market in the Economist; it shows that the luxury goods market, specifically the luxury auto market has far outpaced inflation.
http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21583662-investing-luxury-items-can-yield-high-returns-risks-are-commensurate-fruits

I agree that it's been driven by the boomer generation and I think bowez is right in that the market will die down eventually as the next generations care less about these items (corollary: at some point, dump your baseball cards/comics). However, I believe there is still appreciation left even if the rise in prices starts tapering off

* Investment grade cars: my pics - Lexus LFA, McLaren MP12-C. Neither will be molested or driven much. The problem with building up an investment grade collection, after the first one of money, is that you need an investment grade maintenance/storage program. Just like with fancy wine, you can't just buy a bottle and throw it in your wine cellar/wine fridge if you expect to resell it later. People are going to want to know that the item hasn't degraded while you were the custodian. If you are dead set on investing in cars, looking at some of these funds seems a better bet to me. Since the items being invested in are pretty illiquid and the transaction costs are pretty high to buy/sell cars of this grade, I'm not sure we'll see a mutual fund/ETF for these kinds of investments anytime soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
975 Posts
I think the other question is when they do die off, their now classic 50s/60s/70s six figure trophy cars will presumably implode in value, creating some quite tantalizing choices in the market over some 80s/90s/00s car many of us currently look in. I know what I'd choose if/when that day comes.

I don't think being modded matters much anymore, at least if it's done right. These cars and most cars from the period are largely package deals and don't have the variety of weird or desireable options old cars do. That's where numbers matching is really desirable. With these though, "loaded" is in reality a few minor and very common options. In fact the rarest MN12s built are probably base models with no defrost ,cruise, power locks and alloys
So that means you should strip down your car by removing the A/C to make it valuable, like you did -- right? :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
So that means you should strip down your car by removing the A/C to make it valuable, like you did -- right? :rolleyes:
Nobody here bought their car as an "Investment" .. we actually enjoy driving them. Buying cars as an investment is not a smart idea, even if you keep the car in the garage with 0 miles in perfect condition .. its a waste if you dont get to drive it.

You dont have to follow anybodies lead in modifying cars, thats a personal choice - however at this point, I dont think you could afford the price XR7 would ask to buy his personal car. Same here, if you wanted to buy my 1995 5 speed SC .. im only asking $5000 over bluebook value ( I dont even know or care what that imaginary number is ) otherwise its not for sale. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
For me, my "Bird is worth way more than the $30,000 Mustang GT I just sold - - - there's not enough money out there to tempt me into selling her - - - but .... people say I'm a little crazy, anyway - - - :)
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top