TCCoA Forums banner

21 - 40 of 73 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
What? Chrysler that is pretty much owned by the government supports the new targets?

Shocker.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
12,082 Posts
What? Chrysler that is pretty much owned by the government supports the new targets?

Shocker.....
Fiat bought them for the dealer network to hock their junk in the states, they couldn't care less about Chrysler as an automaker. Not much different than the Renault/AMC partnership and we know what happened there.
Yup, as of July 2011 the Gov. no longer owns controlling interest in Chrysler. That distinction now belongs to Fiat (53.5% controlling interest to be exact.)

Interestingly, Chrysler returned to foreign ownership just four short years after breaking up with Dailmer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/22/business/us-sheds-its-stake-in-chrysler.html
 

·
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
Joined
·
3,734 Posts
Welcome to 1972 everybody!
 

·
WOT Junkie and avid corn burner
Joined
·
3,734 Posts
True. 255 CID small blocks, anyone? :zpuke:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,940 Posts
255 isn't that much smaller than 281.

First of the Windsor blocks was the Ford 221 (!!!) in the Falcon and Comet, back in 1962.

The chevy 283 and ford 289 were right royal motors in their day. They both lived on (the Chevy still!) in descendents.

RwP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,376 Posts
PS. As far as small cars being rebadged to up the CAFE of mfgs, it's still happening. Just google Aston Martin Cygnet. With the recent takeover of Porsche by VW (they used to be "cousins" with related ownership but and now one fully owns the other), I suspect we will see another VW-based Porsche 914 like car in the future.
That is already here. Have you not noticed the similarities between the Porsche Panamera and the VW Beetle? The Beetle is basically a 2dr version of the Panamera!

Panamera:





Beetle:





I agree but improving exits and entrances and adding lanes to existing roadways that ARE frequently used could help with some traffic congestion. Idling and crawling isn't good for MPG
A big project that is addressing that here in SoCal is the 405 project. Anybody here who drives through that knows that this is one hell of a project going on right now.

And a can of fix a flat and a portable pump takes care of it in a jiffy as well. Tons of new cars come with that in lieu of a spare these days.
Exactly. The RX-8 I owned a few years ago did not have a spare as a standard option. Instead it had a tire repair kit. If you wanted the spare, you had to pay something silly like $500 or something to have it.

Quote:
Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne told the Detroit Free Press that V8-powered cars like his company’s Dodge Challenger will become as “rare as white flies” under new fuel efficiency standards announced by the Obama administration yesterday.

The new regulations, which will require a fleet wide fuel economy average of 54.5 mpg by the year 2025 will “change the way the industry operates” and means that automakers must deploy significantly new technologies and must change the way cars are designed, according to Marchionne. "We are struggling with some big choices we need to make," he said.

Chrysler officially supports the new targets, and Marchionne believes they can be met, but the company currently lacks any high mileage hybrid or battery-powered cars in its lineup while offering four popular vehicles from its SRT high-performance division that are powered by a supercharged Hemi V8 engine and get 17 mpg combined or less.

Next year, the Fiat brand will begin selling a low-volume electric version of its 500 microcar, but Chrysler’s further efforts in the alternative fuel arena are unclear. Less so is the introduction later this year of the 640 hp V10-powered SRT Viper supercar, which sounds like it could end up being the only thing rarer than a white fly.

Get ‘em while they last.
You know, I don't care if a v8 engine is thing of the past come 2025. As long as there is a car out there using whatever technology is available then that can produce an equivalent amount of power to that of 300HP+, then that'll work for me. That would be the "v8" of the future.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,044 Posts
A Porsche looking like a Beetle? What a revelation! lol

V8s aren't going anywhere. They're still a good all around design for street performance which has kept them alive up to this point. Last time CAFE got strict they were predicted to die off with 4 and 6 cylinder turbos taking their place. Cost, reliability, comparable performance and even MPG kept them alive. Now with variable cam timing, direct injection, ect. on the horizon they're sure to dynamically improve again. Plus with the majority of the companies lineups making multiple efficient cars including hybrid models, the average will easily balance mid 20 to 30 mpg V8 models they have. Chrysler are the ones who are in the real bind. Their V8s are big, The cars are bigger and those are really their only vehicles that seem to move any volume. Their small cars don't sell, they don't have many of them in their lineups(what do they have the Dart(Stratus?) as their lone econobox in a lineup of Chargers, Challengers and trucks?) and being cash strapped screws any development for them.

All I know is I'll never go electric.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,376 Posts
Before the new Beetle, I didn't really see any Porsche looking like any V-Dub.

The Neon was a great Chrysler / Dodge econo-box seller back in the day. Why they killed it and replaced it with that ugly Dodge Caliber is beyond me. You don't see too many of them and they look ugly as crap :zpuke:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,376 Posts
Yea, really. The first Porsche pictured, sure. I can see the resemblance. The second one, that's stretching it for me. The third one, I no longer see any resemblance to the Beetle.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,044 Posts
Teardrop shape, large round headlamps, slab sides, side window design... (not even mentioning the Driveline layouts) the resemblance isn't clear? The Beetle looks like a drop of water forming on a faucet and each evolution from the 356 to 911 to 964 to 993 to 996 to 997 has been that same drop of water building up and getting stretched before it drips into the sink :tongue:
 

·
PostWhore, The AFDB is on a lil tight.
Joined
·
3,868 Posts
It requires imagination. I can see it. Just mirror the cars top lines horizontally and you can see what he means.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,940 Posts
Same or not - the Porsche used a 6 cylinder air-cooled flat motor for years.

The 6 in the Volkswagon Microbus? Was a Porsche 6 with the cylinders flat instead of up and down.

The original 4 cylinder Porsche? Was a VW motor.

Back in the 70's, the hot rod tip for VWs was a Porsche motor.

Transaxle bolted right up.

I don't think the Panamerica is the Beetle match, BICBW.

RwP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,062 Posts
I am for higher mileage. I am not sure why we do not already have such. Shoot Ford makes a 65mpg Fiesta in Europe. I would buy one.

What disturbs me in all this is as a country we keep 'leading' the charge for a better world all while cutting off our nose despite our face. When everyone has to do as we do I am all for it. I know that isn't progress, that is lazy and would lend itself to just staying in the same ol easy rut, or would it. Now I could go on and be much more political on this but I'll leave it as that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,862 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
I am for higher mileage. I am not sure why we do not already have such. Shoot Ford makes a 65mpg Fiesta in Europe. I would buy one.

What disturbs me in all this is as a country we keep 'leading' the charge for a better world all while cutting off our nose despite our face. When everyone has to do as we do I am all for it. I know that isn't progress, that is lazy and would lend itself to just staying in the same ol easy rut, or would it. Now I could go on and be much more political on this but I'll leave it as that.
You guys were talking about VW's earlier - shoot the TDI turbo used over in Europe also gets in the 60+mpg range. There was an article awhile back where they put it up against a Prius and beat it - the VW TDI was faster and used less fuel.

It just came to this country, but I doubt it will get that high with all the pollution-control crap we require...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,527 Posts
I am for higher mileage. I am not sure why we do not already have such. Shoot Ford makes a 65mpg Fiesta in Europe. I would buy one.

QUOTE]

Europe uses a different system for calculating the gas mileage of the cars, as well as a different definition of a gallon, so their fuel economy ratings are going to be about 20% higher than ours for the exact same car. The Fiesta there is pretty much the same car as we have here. The 65mpg, which equates to about 54mpg here, comes from a 1.25L engine, which makes a whopping 60hp. That might be fine for putting around european cities, but on american highways, 60hp just isn't going to cut it.

Passing a law doesn't make the impossible possible, and it doesn't make expensive new technology affordable. If you want 54mpg out of the average car, you are going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere. Either it will be much smaller, or much less powerful, or much more expensive, or more realistically, all 3 of those things, and all of those things are going to discourage prospective buyers in the american market, which is going to cost the car companies more money, which will likely send the companies begging for more bailout money from the government, which means this law ultimately costs each and every tax payer more money for something that they don't necessarily want. If you want more fuel efficient vehicles to be sold, the only effective way to do it is to change the demand side of the equation. Not that I am for this either, but a better way to do this would be to raise the gas tax by $1/gal and watch how many people suddenly WANT to buy the more fuel efficient vehicle. Ultimately, that would probably cost most people less money and have less of a negative effect on the economy, but that is a transparent tax, and so it is unpopular and no politician will do it. If they can hide the tax through increased prices, they can look like a hero campaigning for the environment instead of people seeing the truth that they don't care about anything but their own re-election and lining their own pockets.

Personally, the CAFE laws will help me because with new cars becoming more expensive, people will want to keep their older cars longer, which means more work for the auto mechanics. Also with more fuel efficient vehicles on the road, the demand for gas will go down, which means more cheap fuel available for me and my gas guzzling V8s. Unfortunately, this law will hurt almost everyone else in the country. Increased prices will hurt anyone looking to buy a new car. That will drive the price of used cars up as well, which will hurt anyone looking to buy a used car. The demand for new cars will drop, which will hurt anyone who works in the auto manufacturing or sales business. The revenue brought in from gas taxes will drop, which will hurt the maintenance on the roads, which will hurt everyone driving on the roads. No matter how you cut it, this is a bad idea that is hurtful to the american public, and it has been since the 70s when they came out with it. What this shows is that the current administration has absolutely no understanding of basic economics, and unfortunately that lack of understanding on his part will ultimately cost money out of the pockets of the average middle-class people.

OK, rant over.
 
21 - 40 of 73 Posts
Top